Stopped Rebate help and advice required

[Zeddedhed]

I'm looking for a bit of wisdom from the woodworking collective.

I recently posted about a cabinet I had made for the missus (#p968103)

I've been asked to make some more of these cabinets in a variety of sizes and was wondering if there was a better way of achieving the rebate on the back of the cabinet into which I fitted a 12.5m veneered Oak board. The rebate was 25mm wide by 12mm deep to allow not only the board but also a french cleat to fit in and still allow the unit to fit flush to the wall.

The following sketchup pieces might help to explain better:

To achieve the stopped rebate in the top panel I just played very carefully with the router in a table, dropping on and then stopping short to achieve the stopped rebate at both ends. Obviously the rebate on the side panel is not a problem.

The question is this....

Is there a better/safer/more accurate way of doing this?
What would all you woodworking geniuses (genii?) do in this instance.
Am I missing something extremely obvious?

All help gratefully received.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

I assume you've been routing the rebate before assembly. Is there a particular reason why you want to include the little (quite vulnerable to accidental breakage) stop-end in that top rebate? The simplest solution would be to design it out.

Another alternative would be to rout the rebate after assembly - using a suitable jig to keep the router square to the edge.

Cheers, W2S

 

[Graham Orm]

Not sure how you would 'design it out' Woody.

Zedshed. I think you've done it the way i would have. I'd put a pencil mark on the fence of the router table, (masking tape) in line with the edges of the cutter. Then a pencil mark on the work where you want the cut to stop. Square up the cut with a sharp chisel. Can't think of an easier way.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

One idea to do it differently would be to put another rebate (at right angles to the main one) at the ends of the top board - that's the kind of thing I meant. W2S

 

[custard]

Think of a haunched tenon, so run the rebate right through both components then take a bite out of the thicker part of the upright component to fill the "gap".

I know some people run the rebate right through then insert a small plug into the gap...but unless it's done superbly well that doesn't look very workmanlike to my eye.

 

[Zeddedhed]

Thanks guys. (I'm assuming you're all guys - a bit sexist of me so sorry if I'm wrong)

I had thought of the 'haunched tenon' type option and also running right through and 'plugging it' but both seem more difficult to get looking 'cock on'.

The way I'm currently doing it prevents you from seeing any foul ups unless viewed from the back (unless of course my stopped rebate doesn't stop!)
and having seen the back of some otherwise nice pieces of furniture it would seem that a slightly 'rougher' appearance is acceptable if not for viewing.

Graham, that's exactly how I do it on the router table except I don't use masking tape as I've found that sometimes it catches on the workpiece. My fence is faced with Melamine so I simply wipe off the pencil marks with a tradesmans 'wet wipe' thingy when done.

'Dropping on' - starting the cut in from the end is the only bit I find slightly 'exciting' so I'll just have to get better and more confident at doing it.

I hadn't really thought through the idea of routing AFTER assembly - I shall have to try this on some scrap pieces and see how it goes.

Once again, thanks one and all.

 

[Jacob]

Am I missing something extremely obvious?

Yes.
Design it out (as said above W2S):
Run the rebate through sides and top.
Then continue the rebate round the ends of the top (but same width as thickness of sides) to make a housing for the sides.
Stopped housings, plugs, dropping-in, etc. all pointless and unecessary

 

[Droogs]

how about this:

 

[MatthewRedStars]

Mitre the carcass corners?

 

[RobinBHM]

The correct and safe way to machine a double stopped rebate is to fit a long false fence to router (or spindle moulder). Then screw 2 blocks of wood to the fence that correspond to the start and finish points

Then machining becomes straightforward as the front block prevents the work from kicking back as you are dropping on and the rear block stops the rebate overunning and makes it easy to pull the work back away from the cutter. It is also much safer, and the only safe way to do it on a spindle moulder.

As the rebate finishes close to the end and there is a risk of the short grain spitting out, you could make your top and bottom overl ength by say 50mm, machine the stopped rebate, then trim to length prior to assembly.

You could also trim the corners off the back so you dont need to square out the rebate ends, which is increasing the risk of the short grain, popping that end 'block' out.

 

[Jacob]

More "correct" to design it out altogether.
Very rare to find a stopped rebate as essential to a design - it's more likely to be an unintended mistake.

 

[Zeddedhed]

More "correct" to design it out altogether.
Very rare to find a stopped rebate as essential to a design - it's more likely to be an unintended mistake.

But if the design calls for the view from the side and top to be uninterrupted then the solution you proposed earlier wouldn't fulfill the design brief.
The original client (SWIMBO) wanted a clean butt joint hence the reason for the stopped rebate in the first place.


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[Jacob]

More "correct" to design it out altogether.
Very rare to find a stopped rebate as essential to a design - it's more likely to be an unintended mistake.

But if the design calls for the view from the side and top to be uninterrupted then the solution you proposed earlier wouldn't fulfill the design brief.
The original client (SWIMBO) wanted a clean butt joint hence the reason for the stopped rebate in the first place.


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??
There'd be a clean straight line joint if you did it with a rebate on the edge too.

 

[Zeddedhed]

Jacob, I'm sure you're right but my brain is only working in 2D mode at the moment. I'll have to have a go at sketching this out tonight.


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[Graham Orm]

I think what Jacob means is run a housing across the width (not length) of the top for the side to sit in. That way you can run your housing right through on both side and top.

 

[Zeddedhed]

Gotcha. Dunno why I didn't think of that myself. Thanks Jacob and Graham.


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[Graham Orm]

 

[Jacob]

Yes that's it - though you could turn it 90º to make the top cover from side to side. no joins seen from above.

 

[RobinBHM]

Stopped rebates arent that common because most cabinet construction comprises of a 4 sided box with an overhanging, or flush top. In which case the sides run through and the top and bottom are narrower by the rebate size.

Without a separate top, the simplest way is to not rebate the top, just fit a batten on at the rear. Or instead of a batten an internal top to the carcase, useful if the cabinet has inset doors as it can also act as the door stop.

Designing out the stopped rebate as per above drawing, introduces a joint that is difficult to assemble and needs accurate machining. Far easier to just butt the carcase and use a biscuit jointer.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

I'm glad you went for the re-design option!

If you wanted to get really fancy you could try secret mitred dovetails at the corners, assemble the carcass, rout the rebate all the way round the back with a bearing guided rebating bit, or rebate plane, and chisel the rebate corners square. But then SWMBO might not be pleased with productivity levels!

Cheers W2S

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/techn ... rest-of-us

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axcaliber-re ... cutter-set or even http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/rebate-plane