Structural plywood for a cabinet?

[sploo]

I have a router table made from MDF, which has held up OK-ish (some sagging), but I notice that many (especially US) builders seem to make their cabinets from various types of plywood. Birch ply would be great, but it's expensive. I note that Wickes have this http://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Structur ... m/p/110036 and I'm wondering if it'd be suitable for building the carcass and drawers for a new workshop cabinet?

I'd still probably use a double layer of MDF with formica/laminate for the top, and maybe get some birch ply for making a new fence though (my previous MDF fence has warped due to moisture over the years).

 

[Bodgers]

I prefer working with Birch plywood. It is more expensive, but it's nicer to work with compared to mdf. There are potential dust hazards with mdf as well.

You may have answered your own question (with your fence) as to why some are preferring plywood to mdf for the top.

I have just built a router table top by laminating two 12mm thick birch ply sheets, it is pretty strong and flat.

As with most wood tops like these, you probably need to support the length of the top to prevent sagging etc. which I suppose is what you will be doing by building the cabinet out of this spruce ply.

There is always a lovely cast iron router top that UKJ sell... It's about £300 though, which is definitely more expensive than mdf.

 

[mahomo59]

+ 1 on the ujk

 

[sploo]

I prefer working with Birch plywood. It is more expensive, but it's nicer to work with compared to mdf. There are potential dust hazards with mdf as well.

You may have answered your own question (with your fence) as to why some are preferring plywood to mdf for the top.

I have just built a router table top by laminating two 12mm thick birch ply sheets, it is pretty strong and flat.

As with most wood tops like these, you probably need to support the length of the top to prevent sagging etc. which I suppose is what you will be doing by building the cabinet out of this spruce ply.

There is always a lovely cast iron router top that UKJ sell... It's about £300 though, which is definitely more expensive than mdf.

Yea, my old table had four castors and it's sagged badly in the middle. For the new version I'm wanting to make a combined router table with space for a small table saw - and it'll have more castors, along with bolts to adjust the flatness of the main table.

The thing is - plywood warps too; especially the cheap and nasty stuff. A 4x8' 3/4" sheet of birch ply is more than twice the price of a sheet of the spruce from Wickes though.

 

[Bodgers]

It might be more cost effective, and more stable, to just build a frame out construction timber, and panel it with thin ply.

 

[sploo]

It might be more cost effective, and more stable, to just build a frame out construction timber, and panel it with thin ply.

Yea, I was wondering about that too - I've previously built a cabinet for some heavy machinery from a pine frame with 3/4" MDF panels. The problem is that the cheap non-structural ply in DIY stores is dire and chips really badly. Wickes do 12mm and 9mm versions of the better spruce ply - though looking at their site it's only a little bit cheaper.

I guess I could just go back to the pine frame with MDF panel construction as that worked well (the MDF is cheaper too). The router table was just some sheets of MDF attached together using white modesty blocks, so a really quick and dirty build.

Hmmm, or I could go for the moisture resistant: http://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Moisture ... m/p/190138

Strange thing is: the moisture resistant is apparently much lighter than the normal (~27kg vs ~40kg), which seems a bit odd.

 

[Bodgers]

You aren't necessarily going to get the best bang for buck at Wickes.

I would go to a more specialist timber place and look through the stuff. Quality may well be significantly higher.

The Malaysian hardwood ply I was looking at at Yorkshire Timber recently looked fairly good for the money.

 

[sploo]

You aren't necessarily going to get the best bang for buck at Wickes.

I would go to a more specialist timber place and look through the stuff. Quality may well be significantly higher.

The Malaysian hardwood ply I was looking at at Yorkshire Timber recently looked fairly good for the money.

I've really struggled with that in the Oxfordshire/Berkshire area. There's a timber merchant in a town near me but their prices are eye watering for just about anything.

I found a place in Oxford that would do a 4x8' sheet of 3/4" birch ply B/BB grade for £65. I've not checked out their cheaper ply or MDF prices, but I've struggled to find a local supplier that's cheaper than Wickes - I'd love to find one though!

 

[n0legs]

I've used the Wickes ply, it does have quite a few voids.

 

[sploo]

I've used the Wickes ply, it does have quite a few voids.

The non-structural stuff (dark brown outer) definitely; it's terrible, and chips really badly. I've not tried the structural spruce ply. It looks better on the shelf, but I've not cut into it.

 

[Bodgers]

You aren't necessarily going to get the best bang for buck at Wickes.

I would go to a more specialist timber place and look through the stuff. Quality may well be significantly higher.

The Malaysian hardwood ply I was looking at at Yorkshire Timber recently looked fairly good for the money.

I've really struggled with that in the Oxfordshire/Berkshire area. There's a timber merchant in a town near me but their prices are eye watering for just about anything.

I found a place in Oxford that would do a 4x8' sheet of 3/4" birch ply B/BB grade for £65. I've not checked out their cheaper ply or MDF prices, but I've struggled to find a local supplier that's cheaper than Wickes - I'd love to find one though!

That price isn't too far away from typical, at least for someone off the street.

One thing I found difficult was comparing prices. Most of these places just don't publish their prices so it's impossible to compare without ringing round every one of them. I also found that some give a different price when emailing for a written quote and turning up.

One half way solution might be a specialist chain like Howarth Timber. There might be one local to you. They might have more of an economy of scale thing going on, but still sell a decent product.

There is a plywood specialist in Halifax (miles away from you, I know) that do publish prices, and they are very keen. Maybe it might be worth having a look out for something like that...

 

[sploo]

That price isn't too far away from typical, at least for someone off the street.

One thing I found difficult was comparing prices. Most of these places just don't publish their prices so it's impossible to compare without ringing round every one of them. I also found that some give a different price when emailing for a written quote and turning up.

One half way solution might be a specialist chain like Howarth Timber. There might be one local to you. They might have more of an economy of scale thing going on, but still sell a decent product.

There is a plywood specialist in Halifax (miles away from you, I know) that do publish prices, and they are very keen. Maybe it might be worth having a look out for something like that...

Yea, the lack of published prices (or online product lists) is a pain, and obviously the delivery prices for suppliers that aren't local blows the economy out of the water unless you're buying loads of sheets.

It (the lack of decent[ly priced] local suppliers) has been a constant bugbear for me. The guys I've found in Oxford look OK, but it's a hassle for me to get to, so I've not made it in yet.

Howarth Timber -> another repeat of the same pattern I see from so many national wood merchants; a huge hole around the Oxfordshire area (i.e. nothing near me). I've lost count of the number of suppliers I've checked out and found the same. Bizarre.

 

[pcb1962]

I've used the Wickes ply, it does have quite a few voids.

I was about to say the same.
I used to get my ply at Wickes before I knew better.
There's a reason it's cheap, it's absolute rubbish.

 

[pcb1962]

I found a place in Oxford that would do a 4x8' sheet of 3/4" birch ply B/BB grade for £65.

I'd be biting their hand off at that price for 18mm birch, here's what my local charge:
http://www.championtimber.com/sheet-mat ... ch-plywood

 

[Silas Gull]

I have a home made router table made from mdf.
I installed a system of adjustable struts (basically threaded rod and nuts) beneath the table. That way I can always adjust for perfect flatness using a reference straight edge. Works pretty well and simple as you like.

 

[sploo]

I found a place in Oxford that would do a 4x8' sheet of 3/4" birch ply B/BB grade for £65.

I'd be biting their hand off at that price for 18mm birch, here's what my local charge:
http://www.championtimber.com/sheet-mat ... ch-plywood

Yea the £65 is easily the best I've seen in my area; ~£100 is more common - as per your link above.

So many US builders seems to have mountains of the stuff. I wonder if it's cheaper over there.

I have a home made router table made from mdf.
I installed a system of adjustable struts (basically threaded rod and nuts) beneath the table. That way I can always adjust for perfect flatness using a reference straight edge. Works pretty well and simple as you like.

That's exactly what I'm planning with this new table - not just so I can flatten and adjust the main router table surface over time, but because I want to match it up with the surface of a small table saw, so it'll be critical that I can "tune" it. For that reason I'm beginning to think that I should just do the cabinet construction out of "whatever"; given that my existing cab has done ok - it's just the top that's sagged. The fence has warped too, so that will admittedly need an alternate material.

 

[yetloh]

The Malaysian hardwood ply I was looking at at Yorkshire Timber recently looked fairly good for the money.

It may well be, but a lot of this Asian stuff comes from ripping up tropical rain forest. OK of you don't mind that.

Jim

 

[Bodgers]

The Malaysian hardwood ply I was looking at at Yorkshire Timber recently looked fairly good for the money.

It may well be, but a lot of this Asian stuff comes from ripping up tropical rain forest. OK of you don't mind that.

Jim

This stuff was FSC certified.

 

[devonwoody]

Surely you can pick up a metal router table at those sort of ply prices and not have to worry about the problems timber ones can bring, and usually the metal ones can be universal with regard to router fixing now and in the future.

 

[Bodgers]

I found a place in Oxford that would do a 4x8' sheet of 3/4" birch ply B/BB grade for £65.

I'd be biting their hand off at that price for 18mm birch, here's what my local charge:
http://www.championtimber.com/sheet-mat ... ch-plywood

Yea the £65 is easily the best I've seen in my area; ~£100 is more common - as per your link above.

So many US builders seems to have mountains of the stuff. I wonder if it's cheaper over there.

I have a home made router table made from mdf.
I installed a system of adjustable struts (basically threaded rod and nuts) beneath the table. That way I can always adjust for perfect flatness using a reference straight edge. Works pretty well and simple as you like.

That's exactly what I'm planning with this new table - not just so I can flatten and adjust the main router table surface over time, but because I want to match it up with the surface of a small table saw, so it'll be critical that I can "tune" it. For that reason I'm beginning to think that I should just do the cabinet construction out of "whatever"; given that my existing cab has done ok - it's just the top that's sagged. The fence has warped too, so that will admittedly need an alternate material.

£100 is the most expensive I have ever seen for 18mm Birch.

50-60 seems more typical to me.

http://www.fortimber.demon.co.uk/matrl1.htm

http://www.builderdepot.co.uk/wbp-plywo ... 440mm.html

http://www.swanseatimber.co.uk/shop/PLY ... _8611.html

http://www.jtdove.co.uk/resources/pdf/p ... rSheet.pdf

If all you are building is sides for workshop equipment, high quality birch ply is way over spec I'd say.

You could also make the top from Formica and make sure it is well supported.