Wood burning stove

[The Bear]

I'm sure several of you have these, I've never had or used one before, but am intending to get one.

I have a slight problem in that the room I intend to put it, I also intend to extend in a couple of years. So I think I will need to make sure the output is right for the extended room. I'm also unsure if I will want to move it at the point also. So as well as deciding whether to install one now or wait until I renovate I'm after any general advice/lessons learnt.

Will go for something traditional and simple looking.

Any recommendation on brands or ones to avoid

I have no chimney in the house so flue information

Do I need a specialist to install

Any recommendations for companies striking distance of Surrey

Wood wise a friend had indicated he can get me free-ish logs through another friend. Any seasoning info? Do I need to avoid softwood altogether?

Really only just started looking into this so I'm really after any advice you guys can impart, be it buying, installing or running it or basically anything else I need to consider.


Thanks



Mark

 

[RogerS]

Pretty sure wood-burner installation is covered by regs and who can/can't fit one.

 

[porker]

Don't know any installers around Surrey but I would get a few to quote as they can vary wildly. If you do this make sure they are an improved installer. There are a few about who use weasel words but are not actually approved and this can cause issues later as it will be you that is responsible. The flue can be a costly item so you need the whole package to cost. The whole process now needs Building regs approval so although you can do it yourself you will either have to read up carefully and get it signed off or go to an approved installer.
Personally I would not use softwood or at least very little although I do use pallet wood as kindling. Reason is that it can creosote up your flue and it is a pig to remove as well as being a fire risk. Some say that if it is seasoned well it is OK or that the burners get so hot it is not an issue. I just avoid softwood.
Also sizing is important because wood burners work best when they are hot and if you pick one that is too large for the space it can be too hot and use more wood. You should also consider a special fan on top of the burner that is powered by the heat to push the heat around the room.
I have a Stovax but there are loads out there. I think in general you get what you pay for and the later ones are more efficient. I have heard the cheap units are not cast but sheet steel. I don't know how long these would last as I have no experience of them.

 

[MIGNAL]

Pointless installing it now if it's going to be moved sometime in the near future. There certainly are regs concerning the flue and the constructional hearth. I think it needs to be installed or signed off by a Hetas member.
You can burn softwood. Pretty sure they burn a lot of softwood in the Nordic countries. Wood/Logs must be dry/seasoned at around 18% mc or less.
Oh, and you'll need a LOT of wood. A lot more than most people imagine.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

You get much what you pay for - avoid the cheap Chinese cast iron ones, they rust like anchors. Check the price of bricks, grates, etc. - my Clearview (£1350), while a brilliant stove, was costing me about £500 every three years in parts. You'll probably need twinwall flue, which is expensive. You need a HETAS registered installer, or else building regs. inspections. Find out the regs. for how how big the hearth has to be and how far the stove has to be from the wall and so on. If you are going to burn only wood (efficiently), look at a woodburning stove rather than a multi fuel - they burn in different ways. Multi fuels have the draught underneath, wood is more efficient with the draught over the top. Some stoves are built with both, of course. Thought about a back boiler? I'm looking at a Dowling, so as not to have the ongoing costs in parts after installation.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

As above - work out what you need and go a size SMALLER - it seems odd, but a small one running hot is cleaner and way more efficient than a large one that has to be slowed down. I burnt mostly softwood for the 12yrs I had mine without a problem - many people avoid it because in an open fire it can spit badly. This is irrelevant to a stove, of course. A good hot blaze once in a while will clear most of the tar.

 

[Baldhead]

Sorry for 'stealing' this thread but an ex work colleague of mine installed his own wood burning stove, and to save money he didn't use a twin wall flue, anyhow cut a long story short it started a fire, believe it or not he's a firefighter by profession!

Baldhead

 

[porker]

Good point about the Nordics, they do burn a lot of pine so it can't be a major issue. Where I live (Bucks) it is mainly hardwood and I also have an open fire (which I am thinking of converting to another log burner too next Spring) which I don't want to spit hence why I have avoided softwood. I have a 2p coin sized burn on the carpet to prove it.

Also about the consumption, they definitely do burn a LOT of wood.

Mine wouldn't pass the regs now. One issue is that the doors swing out beyond the hearth which is not acceptable now. I also want a liner put in the chimney because occasionally you get a slight smell upstairs. Get carbon monoxide detectors too in the rooms (also a requirement now).

I use mine to offset the cost of heating oil as my place is large and un-insulated (and not easy to insulate). I can get wood for free as long as I cut it so it makes sense. I like doing it too and you need to as there is work and mess involved in running one of these things.

 

[ColeyS1]

Sorry for 'stealing' this thread but an ex work colleague of mine installed his own wood burning stove, and to save money he didn't use a twin wall flue, anyhow cut a long story short it started a fire, believe it or not he's a firefighter by profession!

Baldhead

If you use a single skin flue do you have to vermiculite around it to insulate it ? Only reason I ask is on site the other day I saw they were putting a long reel of......extractor type metal hose down a chimney stack, nothing else around it :|:?

 

[MIGNAL]

Strange thing to do. Single wall flues (for gas) are real lightweight in comparison to solid fuel flues.
I have a small Charnwood (wood only), which seems perfectly fine. No idea how it will fare over 5/10 years though.
I burn 99% softwood - mainly old joists/ 3 x 2 brought to me by builders. In nearly 2 years I've yet to buy a single piece of firewood!

 

[porker]

If you use a single skin flue do you have to vermiculite around it to insulate it ? Only reason I ask is on site the other day I saw they were putting a long reel of......extractor type metal hose down a chimney stack, nothing else around it :|:?

Single skin liners are not for wood burners and double skinned should not need extra insulation normally

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Porker - you won't believe the difference in the efficiency between an open fire and a stove. No you don't have to insulate around a flue liner, but it is supposed to be better for the draw as you're not heating an empty space in the cavity. If it's not an external wall the heat's not lost completely, of course. The liner is to prevent the leakage of gases, not heat. Afaik, You need twinwall if you go through a floor or roof. Go for stainless flu not stove enamelled - they rust as soon as the there is the tiniest chip.
Sorry, yes, single liners are often used for wood burners - look at the sales sites with pictures of them in situ, you won't often see twinwall. From a stove into and through a chimney stack doesn't need twinwall. Twinwall is for when it goes through potentially inflammable materials.

 

[porker]

Thanks phil - I had heard that the stove will chuck out more heat. While I love my open fire, I am pretty sure most of the heat goes up the chimney! My stove in another (big) room is 12kW and it does throw out a lot of heat but it is a large room and has 3 external solid walls so can take it especially in the colder months. I had a rough quote from a guy that swept the chimney for me of £5k to install a liner to my existing stove, modify the fireplace and brickwork for this (it sticks out into the room too much right now), supply another smaller stove and fit and line the chimney for this. I priced up the bits and the labour (fitting the liners is not easy in my house as access is tricky to the stack) and it seemed about right to me.

 

[blackrodd]

You have had A lot of advise there.
Just to add my two penny worth, I would be inclined to have a proper fireplace and wood burner/ solid fuel fire built in the new extension.
Cast Iron is always better quality than steel tends to be, the stove needs to be airtight in manufacture then it's easier to control
I find that a smaller fire will need plenty of stoking to keep temperature up, so getting the right output fire is important.
otherwise you will either fry or be very hot by constantly feeding wood into a fire, but everyone else is cold. Except for you, stoking, as in the QE 2!

The advantages are that the proper masonry flue will last better and as the twinwall flue and brackets etc are very expensive, possibly not much difference in costing, all in.
Also, the shiny stainless can look a bit ugly clapped on the side of the house and possibly easier on the insurance premiums.
While you are contemplating a log burner, could you use any free hot water produced by a back boiler model, and help out the oil bill?
HTH, Regards Rodders

 

[johnny.t.]

We moved last year and the house had a lined chimney ready for a woodburner but no stove as the tightwads here before us took it with them! After a quick trawl of the net I found Firefox brand stoves, I got a 12kw twin door one for around £550 (had to enlarge the fireplace a bit...lol)and have been nothing but happy with it. We have a large lounge, kitchen, open staircase to two bedrooms and bathroom upstairs. We stayed toastie warm and did not trouble the central heating once (It was a fairly mild winter though) We also use it to boil our kettle saving gallons of electrickity :lol:
A carbon monoxide alarm is pretty essential though.

 

[MIGNAL]

Porker - you won't believe the difference in the efficiency between an open fire and a stove. No you don't have to insulate around a flue liner, but it is supposed to be better for the draw as you're not heating an empty space in the cavity. If it's not an external wall the heat's not lost completely, of course. The liner is to prevent the leakage of gases, not heat. Afaik, You need twinwall if you go through a floor or roof. Go for stainless flu not stove enamelled - they rust as soon as the there is the tiniest chip.
Sorry, yes, single liners are often used for wood burners - look at the sales sites with pictures of them in situ, you won't often see twinwall. From a stove into and through a chimney stack doesn't need twinwall. Twinwall is for when it goes through potentially inflammable materials.

They are double skin liners for woodburners, not single skin. You also need to get the direction of the flue correct, normally there are arrows on the liner indicating which way to install the liner.

http://specflue.com/catalogue/product/f ... flue-liner

 

[porker]

and the difference in cost is massive! I reckon £700 minimum for mine for one stove just for the flue. The company I looked at also quotes 2 different grades of stainless with a 10 year guarantee and a 25 year respectively.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I went into my living room one day and the stove was pinging it was so hot. Swmbo had opened the window to cool the room down, which made me think. That weekend I fitted a 4" bathroom fan at ceiling height at the opposite end of the room, which blew out into the stairwell and then put a 10" desk fan on the hearth blowing across the front of the stove. Over a few hours it made an amazing difference upstairs, had I stayed at that house I'd have replaced the 4" with a 6" one. It was a big Victorian house (with a 7kw stove), and we only put the central heating on for a few weeks of the year. West Cornwall doesn't drop below freezing very often, of course.

"Cast Iron is always better quality than steel tends to be" Rod - I think the people at Dowling might dispute that, have a read on their website. I didn't have problems with a £1350 cast stove, but a £100 pot belly in my workshop rusted while you stopped for tea. I'm looking at a Dowling to get away from the on going costs of their grates, baffles, firebricks and so on. In 12 yrs the last one cost as much in parts as the purchase price.

Mignal - mine was fitted and certified by a (probably the most) reputable firm in Cornwall, and it was single skin (It was 12yrs ago, though). I've looked at a few sites - while double skin is better, it doesn't seem to be a requirement. The only requirement seems to be that for wood and multi fuels it needs to higher grade than for oil and gas. The OP's not fitting his own, anyway.

 

[The Bear]

Guys
Been out all day and just seen all the replies, thanks to everyone whos taken the time.
I need to read through properly rather than the scan I just did.

In the meantime, can anyone point me in the right direction for the regs re where it can be sited, size of hearth etc. The room is a rectangular box at the moment, featureless, no chimney, several doors/window but it does have 3 external walls.

Thanks

Mark

 

[MIGNAL]

The stove makers themselves usually give minimum hearth dimensions and distances to combustibles.
You might be better served going on the 'Green Living forum' where they have a section specifically for wood burners.
I think there are a few pro installers who post there.