Pollys window typical window section

[ColeyS1]

Doing multiple cuts on the spindle is perfectly normal. To machine this you would first do 12x57mm rebates in everything first, then tilt the spindle over to make the 9 degree slope. Your 60mm rebate block can be tilted over to do this in one pass. No need to buy the larger £300 rebate block. Multiple cuts on the spindle is completely fine. You have roller feed so it will always be always pushing down on the bed

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[pollys13]

Ah OK just read this, ta. I had in the past thought of double cutting for the cill, but felt the surface faces wouldn't match up line up perfectly and be a bit rough, so I dropped that idea, thanks for saving me 300 quid. I almost bought it straight off, not asking you, not wanting to appear dumb.
I think I have your address but if you PM me I send you a couple of 6 packs as thanks, any particular brew?

 

[ColeyS1]

I don't want anything. I just don't want you blowing money on somethings that's not necessary. If I get time tomorrow I'll smash out a cill (as per the sketch) and photograph the different steps. You've got everything you need now to make your windows and probably enough for a couple other joinery companies as well ! Lol. If you were serious about these sections I may as well smash out a couple jambs and a head. I'll wait for you to catch up then before we consider adding any moulds to the frames. The massive job you've chosen to undertake must be daunting. Baby steps is the way forward.

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[pollys13]

" The massive job you've chosen to undertake must be daunting. Baby steps is the way forward. ( daunting, a bit but I enjoy the challenge and all the finding things out, even though sometimes wrong. Like a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Uum, sometimes seems 1 step forward and 3 steps back. Though does get clearer as I become more acquainted with method and various joinery terms, jargon meanings. You mentioned you admire my..... determination.... there you go then Instead of buying some beer I'll make a £5 donation to those two charities you know I'm involved with. Might not seem very generous compared to 300 quid saved but there it is.
100% serious so yes when you have time suits you, how to the other window sections.
Your a gem Coley,
Cheers.

 

[ColeyS1]

I'm sure it'll be put to good use, nice one.
Which cill do you think would be most likely to be the one you use. These are the most common ones I make.

If you wanted more projection, you'll have to increase the cill thickness

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[pollys13]

Uum not sure, I'm still thinking of that 4 inch wide cill section I had in my head, that I was thinking I would need the 125 x 100 rebate block to machine it. So looking, probably wrongly at your bigger than 2 inch version I don't have enough experience to judge which would be best. So think take some fresh photos of whats there at the moment, measurements and suggest what you think would be most suitable. I'll take photos and post on forum Saturday if fine.
Yes any donation comes in very handy, upped it to £10 each.

 

[ColeyS1]

Flush cill quite often has a slate sloping cill underneath. 2 inch projection is usually plenty but it depends whats underneath yours. Anything with a 2 inch projection or less gets machined from the same piece of wood. No gluing no grooving no clamping to worry about. Time is money so the extra cost of materials makes up for not needing to glue the projection on. It's up to you what you consider the better option. My thinking is where there's a glue joint there's a risk of water getting in and rotting.
I'd save your donations for a milestone. Complete the frame could be one, make the sash etc etc.
I'd prefer to crack on and get this out early tomorrow,so ideally the projection question would be really handy to know asap.

The other question is would you prefer a relatively thin frame 57mm (more light perhaps) or a chunkier 69mm frame ?

I wouldn't recommend going any less than 57mm. You could go bigger than 69mm but it's just added material cost. Only really go bigger when you have to (to suit inside plasterline ) or when the frames big enough to warrant the extra section size.

So...thin or chunky frame and how much cill projection ?

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[ColeyS1]

Really ? [SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH AND TIGHTLY-CLOSED EYES]

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[pollys13]

Cheers Coley, sorry not been on earlier, quite a lot of rain so only got out with camera later in afternoon. "I'd save your donations for a milestone. " Yes with you on that, why not.
The stone cill extends 6 inches out from base of what passes for a cill. Attaching several photos of what I've got in my 1930s semi at the moment.
Photo A is ground floor lounge, B a closer view, stone cill and external brick work should clean up with my pressure washer that I got for cleaning up the fence. Do a little pointing should look quite tidy. I had played with the idea of removing the stone cill, then run a course of suitable bricks bit like next door but one, did with their plastic. Then place the new frame forward onto the outer course. Have included photos of next door and next door but one. Photo titled,window style photo is of next door but ones plastic, this is the design style I've decide to use for my replacements. Photo C is ground floor hall, not very keen of having ears in cill, ( I think ears are the correct joinery term ) Photo C window to be replaced with a style like in photo ground floor style A1 but flush not storm.
Next doors have same size window openings as mine.

" The other question is would you prefer a relatively thin frame 57mm (more light perhaps) or a chunkier 69mm frame ? "
Uum has the obvious attraction to me as could be less expense. Then again would a chunkier frame look better. A lighter frame could be a consideration as I'll be on my scaffold tower contriving to pull the frame up on a rope. I was having a ponder about this manoeuvre the other night, how I'm going to go about doing it. When I was on the tower, bodge fixing one of the cills and putting masonary paint on. How the tower had to be positioned, was a gap between wall and tower, occurred to me just increase the gap and pulling the frame should be straightforward. My best mate is a roofer, tiler and plasterer and quite a bright spark, will ask if he has any additional ideas on getting frame up and into position, but is only a one man tower. Oh, and the lounge ground floor window opening is 57" x 57" side ground floor 42" x 36"
Any suggestions, ideas, folks?

 

[pollys13]

More photos, max 10 at a time.

 

[ColeyS1]

Tbh I'm even more confused now. Are you making sliding sash or ordinary flush casement windows ? Perhaps a few of each ?

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[pollys13]

Tbh I'm even more confused now. Are you making sliding sash or ordinary flush casement windows ? Perhaps a few of each ?

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Only flush casement, the photos were so you could see how the original sliding sash had been set into the brickwork and cill, as you are familiar with all that. You would know the best design of the cill.

 

[ColeyS1]

Oh I see, I thought you mentioned putting back like for like. Is the plastic double glazing being replaced with wood then ?
For simplicity it would probably be easier to make them all flush

Then make different sized subcills for the ones that need it. The sliding sash ones you have at the moment are obviously waterproof with no projection at the moment. If every other window besides these have projection, you could do those to match ?

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[ColeyS1]

On the windows that haven't got brick or tiled cills, what's the biggest measurement you've got from the front/face of the brickwork to the face of the window frame ?

If they're all around the same size you go just work to the biggest.

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[Chip shop]

A lighter frame could be a consideration as I'll be on my scaffold tower contriving to pull the frame up on a rope. I was having a ponder about this manoeuvre the other night, how I'm going to go about doing it. When I was on the tower, bodge fixing one of the cills and putting masonary paint on. How the tower had to be positioned, was a gap between wall and tower, occurred to me just increase the gap and pulling the frame should be straightforward. My best mate is a roofer, tiler and plasterer and quite a bright spark, will ask if he has any additional ideas on getting frame up and into position

Err, soz if there's something I've missed here, but why would you be roping the frames up on a scaff tower? Surely they'll all be fitted from the inside...won't they?

Also, I think you might be in danger of over thinking the job. Your windows are pretty straightforward, other than the sliding sash...which, I imagine, will take a bit of making good on the inside.

Fitting windows; the horrible reality;

 

[ColeyS1]

It looks like the sliding sash ones are in behind the first brick but the others further forward. What will need to be done at some point is to measure from brick to brick on the outside then plaster to plaster on the inside. I'm trying to take it at a steady pace at the moment. This will be quite important when you come to deciding frame dimensions. There may be a reason the frames where the sliding sash are at the moment, would be better off being buried in behind the brick. This might mean you'd need a chunky frame so for instance 12mm of it will be lost/buried behind the brick. It may be easier to just fit the others from the outside with narrow 57mm frames. The 69mm chunky frame you've buried 12mm would then match. A lot of it depends what lurks on the inside to which approach would be better. Let's keep the momentum going !
My main goal was to demonstrate why you didn't need the large rebate block but I feel progress has come on leaps and bounds since that discussion.
Would a 94mm deep frame look like it could work ? Is there any way you can measure how thick the frames are now? The sliding sash will no doubt be much thicker than your other windows.

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[pollys13]

Err, soz if there's something I've missed here, but why would you be roping the frames up on a scaff tower? Surely they'll all be fitted from the inside...won't they?

Ah right I think that could certainly make life easier. What might have caused me to think about scaffold tower, I'm sure in the past have seen plastic DG being fitted with guys outside on a tower

other than the sliding sash...which, I imagine, will take a bit of making good on the inside. Yes because of the box for the weights I think that gap can be made up flush with the outside course of bricks with engineering bricks?

It might be difficult getting a 5 ft x 5ft frame up the staircase over/ round the landing bannister and into the front and back rooms.

 

[pollys13]

Oh I see, I thought you mentioned putting back like for like. Is the plastic double glazing being replaced with wood then ?
For simplicity it would probably be easier to make them all flush

Then make different sized subcills for the ones that need it. The sliding sash ones you have at the moment are obviously waterproof with no projection at the moment. If every other window besides these have projection, you could do those to match ?

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" I thought you mentioned putting back like for like " When I was talking to the council woman I said that, really meaning not anything, drastically different to what was there already there, not wanting to get pulled into a long drawn out conversation on the phone trying to explain to her what I was wanting to do.
" Is the plastic double glazing being replaced with wood then ? " The photos of the plastic DG of house one up was just to illustrate how they had bricked up under their plastic cill after removing the stone cil, which was same as minel. I thought I might be needing, depending how the frame/cill was put together, might need to remove the stone cill. Go to a reclamation yard whatever and get matching bricks to run horizontally across under the timber frame/cill.
The photo of the white plastic window with the black painted cill. Was to show the window design style flush not storm that I thought would ok for side of house, window that you arrowed in red.

" If every other window besides these have projection, you could do those to match ? " Uum OK if you say so..... you do know best?

 

[pollys13]

It looks like the sliding sash ones are in behind the first brick but the others further forward. What will need to be done at some point is to measure from brick to brick on the outside then plaster to plaster on the inside. I'm trying to take it at a steady pace at the moment. This will be quite important when you come to deciding frame dimensions. There may be a reason the frames where the sliding sash are at the moment, would be better off being buried in behind the brick. This might mean you'd need a chunky frame so for instance 12mm of it will be lost/buried behind the brick. It may be easier to just fit the others from the outside with narrow 57mm frames. The 69mm chunky frame you've buried 12mm would then match. A lot of it depends what lurks on the inside to which approach would be better. Let's keep the momentum going !
My main goal was to demonstrate why you didn't need the large rebate block but I feel progress has come on leaps and bounds since that discussion.
Would a 94mm deep frame look like it could work ? Is there any way you can measure how thick the frames are now? The sliding sash will no doubt be much thicker than your other windows.

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"Is there any way you can measure how thick the frames are now? " Only thing I can think of, is to drill a hole or holes through the timber poke a knitting needle through and measure.
I can take some photos of the interior reveal, could remove internal parts doing that might allow me to size up info your after?

 

[pollys13]

On the windows that haven't got brick or tiled cills, what's the biggest measurement you've got from the front/face of the brickwork to the face of the window frame ?

If they're all around the same size you go just work to the biggest.

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" What's the biggest measurement you've got from the front/face of the brickwork to the face of the window frame ? " In the morning I can knock a bit of cement off and measure,is that what your after, would that do? I'll put a bit of mastic back into any gap