Kitchen worktops

[Hornbeam]

I am just about to start a complete kitchen replacement and will be making all units etc.
We are considering options for worktops
We could use standard chip and laminate worktops, however there are a number of rounded corners so dont think this will look good
Can use standard chip/laminate and fit a hardwood front edging which I can cut/bend to follow the curves
Have considered a full hardwood stip top but dont know how much these shrink and expand and best approach to corner details
Could use an 18mm marine ply and 6mm laminate strips top and bottom so it would look like solid but have no movement issues,
Granite iwould be nice but too expensive and I dont have the tools to cut etc

Any suggestions please
Thanks
Ian

 

[Beau]

Have a few corners in ours and was bothered about expansion and shrinkage in the corner joint. Solution was a combination of things. One length has home cut structural veneer on ply with solid front edge solid wood where it was free to expand and shrink. Hard to explain the whole thing but could a combination of solid wood and veneered wood work for you?

Edit. Classic dyslexic fails to read whole post . Yes what you are proposing works but I did two layers of ply so 36mm ply with 4mm veneer. No veneer on underside but front capping was deep enough so no ply shows on the underside unless you open the cupboards.

 

[Doug71]

Howden Joinery sell granite worktops and the kit you need for cutting/fitting them, never used it but might be a more affordable option.

Loads of firms seem to do granite these days, could you template and fit it yourself and get one of them to just supply and cut it for you?

You can probably tell I am biased towards granite, have it in my kitchen and love it. Have iroko on island and oak in utility room, both high maintenance.

 

[Lons]

The alternative to granite is one of the solid surface materials of which there are many now on the market. Although still expensive, as long as you have a router, jigsaw, ROS and ideally a circular saw along with the usual woodworking skills you will have no trouble fitting. Unlike granite you can achieve virtually invisible joints, undermount sinks and drainage grooves.

You might have problems getting Corian which is only 12mm anyway but most of the others ( I fitted a lot of 25mm Mistral tops ) can be bought quite easily. Simple to fit upstands and splashbacks as well and again unlike granite if you do damage it repairs aren't difficult.

The downside is that it can be scratched but using a ROS you can polish those out and it's pretty messy when cutting and routing so cut outdoors or use extraction or you'll look like a snowman.

Bob

 

[AES]

It could be that the Corian we get here (Switzerland) is different to that in UK, I don't know.

But based on our Corian kitchen tops I would say it was the biggest mistake we made with the whole kitchen refurb. Yes, the blokes fitting it had a pretty easy time (so it was quick - but stinky), and yes, it makes lovely, virtually invisible joints which don't move (or haven't in ours anyway, and it's getting on for 10 years now). BUT ......

IMO, those advantages outweigh the following:

1. It stains very easily, and is almost impossible to clean (we have it as splash back and cooker hob back as well as work surface, and just about ANY spalsh marks it, and if it isn't a clean water splash it's virtually impossible to clean off - a huge amount of elbow grease, using any and all household cleaners available, can, AT BEST, cut it down to a "shadow" of the original splash);

2. It scratches FAR too easily, for "no reason at all" (other than just moving, say, an empty plate from place to place - sliding rather than picking it up);

3. I accidentally dropped a small kitchen (emphasise small) and OK, it did land point down, but it was only from normal hand height and it's made a MUCH bigger hole than if it was a standard wooden, veneered, or plastic laminate top. AND the hole is WHITE (the Corian is quite a dark grey). Worse, my better half had a saucepan lid slip out of her hand, and AGAIN a big white "hole";

4. I realise that I COULD use a ROS and polishing compound to get rid of most of the above problems, but I do NOT consider that normal kitchen cleaning and maintenance, and that would certainly NOT be necessary with any of the alternative kitchen work surfaces mentioned above.

I stress that we're a 2 adult family (no kids), do NOT use the kitchen surfaces as cutting boards, do NOT put hot pans directly on to any kitchen surfaces, and are what I would deem to be "normal responsible, clean-living adults". (I don't even do any wood working in the kitchen)!

Corian? Invention of the devil IMO!!

Stay away from it at ALL costs (save up for granite, which was our 1st choice until we found out what it costs - we should have spent anyway it).

And if we had such a thing as the Trade Descriptions Act here I would have been off to court about it long ago. Definitely NOT fit for purpose.

In a word (2 actually) it is "absolute carp"!

Rant over! But you can tell how it hurts though can't you? The kitchen was done almost 10 years ago now, and as we're in our 70s I guess it won't be done again, so that decision STILL annoys both of us.

(Only possible saving grace is that MAYBE, UK Corian is different to Swiss Corian - I really don't know).

AES

 

[Rorschach]

It could be that the Corian we get here (Switzerland) is different to that in UK, I don't know.

But based on our Corian kitchen tops I would say it was the biggest mistake we made with the whole kitchen refurb. Yes, the blokes fitting it had a pretty easy time (so it was quick - but stinky), and yes, it makes lovely, virtually invisible joints which don't move (or haven't in ours anyway, and it's getting on for 10 years now). BUT ......

IMO, those advantages outweigh the following:

1. It stains very easily, and is almost impossible to clean (we have it as splash back and cooker hob back as well as work surface, and just about ANY spalsh marks it, and if it isn't a clean water splash it's virtually impossible to clean off - a huge amount of elbow grease, using any and all household cleaners available, can, AT BEST, cut it down to a "shadow" of the original splash);

2. It scratches FAR too easily, for "no reason at all" (other than just moving, say, an empty plate from place to place - sliding rather than picking it up);

3. I accidentally dropped a small kitchen (emphasise small) and OK, it did land point down, but it was only from normal hand height and it's made a MUCH bigger hole than if it was a standard wooden, veneered, or plastic laminate top. AND the hole is WHITE (the Corian is quite a dark grey). Worse, my better half had a saucepan lid slip out of her hand, and AGAIN a big white "hole";

4. I realise that I COULD use a ROS and polishing compound to get rid of most of the above problems, but I do NOT consider that normal kitchen cleaning and maintenance, and that would certainly NOT be necessary with any of the alternative kitchen work surfaces mentioned above.

I stress that we're a 2 adult family (no kids), do NOT use the kitchen surfaces as cutting boards, do NOT put hot pans directly on to any kitchen surfaces, and are what I would deem to be "normal responsible, clean-living adults". (I don't even do any wood working in the kitchen)!

Corian? Invention of the devil IMO!!

Stay away from it at ALL costs (save up for granite, which was our 1st choice until we found out what it costs - we should have spent anyway it).

And if we had such a thing as the Trade Descriptions Act here I would have been off to court about it long ago. Definitely NOT fit for purpose.

In a word (2 actually) it is "absolute carp"!

Rant over! But you can tell how it hurts though can't you? The kitchen was done almost 10 years ago now, and as we're in our 70s I guess it won't be done again, so that decision STILL annoys both of us.

(Only possible saving grace is that MAYBE, UK Corian is different to Swiss Corian - I really don't know).

AES

I have not used Corian for a worktop but I have used it in craft projects and turned it on the lathe. Based on my experiences there I would certainly not want to use it for a worktop.

 

[gregmcateer]

I used oak (40mm staves. Bought from http://www.solidwoodkitchencabinets.co. ... ktops.html).

Right angle joints instead of biscuits, we routed a snug fit for a piece of ply along almost full width of the end (if that makes sense). Been in for 3+ years and no movement at all. If you want it to stay nice and fresh If you do need to danish oil it (I do it about 6 - 8 monthly), but it's not bad - Wipe down, VERY light sand or green scourer. wipe/brush/sponge on oil liberally. Leave 10 - 15 mins, then wipe off with soft lint free cloth, leave for 24 hours (in fact that's the annoying bit as out of action - I just do two areas one day, two areas the next).

Any small dings easily sanded out and oiled. Looks almost as good as new.

 

[paulrockliffe]

I've got Iroko work tops from Worktop Express, they're great. I compromised on the finish of the wood and used Sadolin IP67 varnish on them, it's a two-pack varnish that's rock hard. Although the look isn't quite as good as oil, it's maintenance free and obviously gives you far more flexibility around curves.

 

[Lons]

It could be that the Corian we get here (Switzerland) is different to that in UK, I don't know.

But based on our Corian kitchen tops I would say it was the biggest mistake we made with the whole kitchen refurb. Yes, the blokes fitting it had a pretty easy time (so it was quick - but stinky), and yes, it makes lovely, virtually invisible joints which don't move (or haven't in ours anyway, and it's getting on for 10 years now). BUT ......

IMO, those advantages outweigh the following:

1. It stains very easily, and is almost impossible to clean (we have it as splash back and cooker hob back as well as work surface, and just about ANY spalsh marks it, and if it isn't a clean water splash it's virtually impossible to clean off - a huge amount of elbow grease, using any and all household cleaners available, can, AT BEST, cut it down to a "shadow" of the original splash);

2. It scratches FAR too easily, for "no reason at all" (other than just moving, say, an empty plate from place to place - sliding rather than picking it up);

3. I accidentally dropped a small kitchen (emphasise small) and OK, it did land point down, but it was only from normal hand height and it's made a MUCH bigger hole than if it was a standard wooden, veneered, or plastic laminate top. AND the hole is WHITE (the Corian is quite a dark grey). Worse, my better half had a saucepan lid slip out of her hand, and AGAIN a big white "hole";

4. I realise that I COULD use a ROS and polishing compound to get rid of most of the above problems, but I do NOT consider that normal kitchen cleaning and maintenance, and that would certainly NOT be necessary with any of the alternative kitchen work surfaces mentioned above.

I stress that we're a 2 adult family (no kids), do NOT use the kitchen surfaces as cutting boards, do NOT put hot pans directly on to any kitchen surfaces, and are what I would deem to be "normal responsible, clean-living adults". (I don't even do any wood working in the kitchen)!

Corian? Invention of the devil IMO!!

Stay away from it at ALL costs (save up for granite, which was our 1st choice until we found out what it costs - we should have spent anyway it).

And if we had such a thing as the Trade Descriptions Act here I would have been off to court about it long ago. Definitely NOT fit for purpose.

In a word (2 actually) it is "absolute carp"!

Rant over! But you can tell how it hurts though can't you? The kitchen was done almost 10 years ago now, and as we're in our 70s I guess it won't be done again, so that decision STILL annoys both of us.

(Only possible saving grace is that MAYBE, UK Corian is different to Swiss Corian - I really don't know).

AES

I have not used Corian for a worktop but I have used it in craft projects and turned it on the lathe. Based on my experiences there I would certainly not want to use it for a worktop.

Well, that surprises me more than a little! :?

My own Karonia Mistral worktops in a large kitchen, a utility plus a bespoke tabletop have been in for a number of years and still in excellent condition. We are a 2 family household but often with a boisterous 4 year old granddaughter who runs her toy cars across it and recently drew a "lovely" picture with felt tip pens. It has only once had a quick polish with an ROS, just the table surface which chipped when I dropped a chisel ( don't ask ) but 20 mins filling the chip with adhesive and then sanding and polishing took no longer than if it had been hardwood and the resulting repair is invisible. That chip caused a blood stain as well btw 'cos I tried to catch the chisel but it cleaned off easily.

We are generally carefull tbh but the tops and splashbacks have had the usual grease, curry and red wine and not a problem to clean up, ( you should not be using bleach, household cleaners or hard scrubbing in any case ).

I have installed more than 60 kitchens with solid surface and granite tops and the olny one ever a problem was granite which chipped at the moulded edge. Add that to the millions fitted worldwide and I doubt these suppliers would be in business if it was that bad. Corian has been around a long time and there is absolutely no difference in manufacture wherever you live as it comes out of the same factories, the other materials available are also very similar construction.

I can only think perhaps you are careless ( no offence intended ) or you have faulty material.

As far as using it for craft purposes, I do that as well and regularly turn on the lathe, even have a strip of corian as an auxiliary fence on my table saw and it does exactly what's asked of it within the property limits which is the same for any material including wood.

cheers
Bob

 

[AES]

I can assure you that we're NOT careless Lons, I'd rate us both as being above the average level of pernickety-ness - but NO offence taken I assure you.

Just like you, we're both surprised and disappointed, 'cos apart from the cost of granite, the thing that swung us toward Corian was the reputation for longevity and ease of cleaning.

But as per my OP, I can only say it definitely ain't so in our case. No idea where the stuff comes from, and it was only a guess that our Swiss stuff (presumably made here?) must in some way be different to the UK stuff - Corian has had good write ups on this Forum from time to time, I know.

But just like with "friends" one can only "speak as you find", and our finding with Corian is simply, no exaggeration, "absolute garbage, NEVER, EVER again".

The OP must judge for himself, but I know full well there are lots of kitchen specialists on here who's profession it is, so "you all" know much more than me.

AES

 

[ED65]

Granite iwould be nice but too expensive and I dont have the tools to cut etc

Many comments along these lines already Ian but there's loads of options that fall between granite and the various wood solutions. A few competing solid-surface materials available now and there are stones other than granite (i.e. cheaper than granite) of course.

You could even cast your own countertops in concrete if you wanted to, which shouldn't scare anyone handy enough to build all the units

 

[Phil Pascoe]

My friend had granite tops taken out because he got fed up with chipping and cracking expensive crockery and glassware on them. From the Corian I've seen I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole. Mine need replacing at the moment, they will be wood - my last house had wenge tops finished with Osmo, which were beautiful.

 

[RobinBHM]

The mistral product seems interesting at under £500 for a 3.0M x 625m length

http://onlineworktops.co.uk/product/mistral-ignea-25mm/

Ive no experience of its durability in service though.

I think all surfaces have there plus an minus's

Granite, especially in the dark colours seems to need constant cleaning as it shows smears and water marks due to its high gloss finish. It also reflects workstop lighting which can spoil the look. It is a phil says most unforgiving with ceramic and glass ware.

Textured laminates are one of the easiest surfaces to maintain but are no good for curves of course.

 

[John Brown]

As I understand it, granite is sealed, and needs re-sealing from time to time. Surprised me when I heard that, I thought it was prety much impervious to anything.
From a purely aesthetic point of view, I will always favour wood. We used to have Oak, which was OK, but if I ever fit another kitchen for us, I think I would choose full stave Iroko. To be honest, I don't want to live in a kitchen with perfect worktops. I think a few dents and scratches are fine.

 

[Lons]

I can assure you that we're NOT careless Lons, I'd rate us both as being above the average level of pernickety-ness - but NO offence taken I assure you.

Just like you, we're both surprised and disappointed, 'cos apart from the cost of granite, the thing that swung us toward Corian was the reputation for longevity and ease of cleaning.

But as per my OP, I can only say it definitely ain't so in our case. No idea where the stuff comes from, and it was only a guess that our Swiss stuff (presumably made here?) must in some way be different to the UK stuff - Corian has had good write ups on this Forum from time to time, I know.

But just like with "friends" one can only "speak as you find", and our finding with Corian is simply, no exaggeration, "absolute garbage, NEVER, EVER again".

The OP must judge for himself, but I know full well there are lots of kitchen specialists on here who's profession it is, so "you all" know much more than me.

AES

Yes we can only say as we find on everything. I will never for example fly long haul ever again with BA but I know plenty who sing their praises

Some of the general views aren't quite correct between granite and other solids. Certainly I could buy granite in many patterns as cheaply as Mistral or Corian although I got trade prices through my business however all the additional cut outs and polishing pushed granite costs up while I could do that myself and you can't achieve a seamless join with granite.
Granite is generally porous and some types stain quite easily so have to be sealed and if they do stain it is very difficult to remove. They both chip and they both witll break crockery and glassware if dropped and they are both cold to the touch.
Solid surface especially if highly polished eg to 600g or above will show very fine wear / scuff marks over time which can easily be removed by hand using the normally supplied care kit or with an ROS as mentioned and darker colours show more than lighter ones.

Sounds as though you're similar to us so the product doesn't seem right to me as I'm certain all Corian is manufactured to the same recipe.

Despite being a fitter I would have wanted timber worktops at home but to make sure I get my dinners and washing on a regular basis, gave in to what the missus liked (hammer).

I envy you living in Switzerland, we have an uncle there and I have family in Austria. We're buying a rather large touring caravan on Monday and plan trips to both countries, probably not until next year though as already committed to 5 weeks in Canada and Alaska this summer.
Bob

 

[AES]

@Lons (Bob): You wrote, QUOTE: I will never for example fly long haul ever again with BA but I know plenty who sing their praises. UNQUOTE:

Funnily enough I'm 100% WITH you there (about BA). But thank goodness I'm now in the lovely position of - hopefully - NEVER having to fly long haul anywhere, ever again (unless SWMBO decides otherwise that is)!

And you also wrote, QUOTE: ........... and plan trips to both countries, probably not until next year though. UNQUOTE:

Yup, I very much enjoy living here, although it all happened "rather by accident". AND it's also ridiculously expensive here - e.g. we're often ripped off even for normal household & food stuff in comparison to Germany right next door. But any time you're passing (we're quite near to one of the main Germany/Swiss borders to the main Autobahn that runs through Switzerland on the way to Austria) you'll be welcome to drop in for a coffee and a chat.

But what I'll have to show you in my little "fiddling and faddling cellar workshop" will no doubt bore you stiff as you're a professional. But bring a free worktop with you and you can park your mobile home overnight while you fit it!

AES

 

[Lons]

And you also wrote, QUOTE: ........... and plan trips to both countries, probably not until next year though. UNQUOTE:

Yup, I very much enjoy living here, although it all happened "rather by accident". AND it's also ridiculously expensive here - e.g. we're often ripped off even for normal household & food stuff in comparison to Germany right next door. But any time you're passing (we're quite near to one of the main Germany/Swiss borders to the main Autobahn that runs through Switzerland on the way to Austria) you'll be welcome to drop in for a coffee and a chat.

But what I'll have to show you in my little "fiddling and faddling cellar workshop" will no doubt bore you stiff as you're a professional. But bring a free worktop with you and you can park your mobile home overnight while you fit it!

AES

Might well do that :lol: It's a big twin axle van so hope I can park it, haven't had a caravan for 20 years.

Woodwork is my hobby, my business was building and all the various stuff that went with it. Kitchens, bathrooms, small extensions and conservatories became more appealing as I got older and a chat with any like minded woodworking is never ever boring.

My wifes aunt and uncle have been in Switzerland for probably 40 years and retired for the last 20 so well entrenched but I know the cross the border into Germany for their main shopping trips.

 

[AES]

If you make it mate, we'll find somewhere to park it, don't worry.

Where are your Aunt & Uncle? We're about 20 mins drive from the nearest border (Weil am Rhein).

We don't cross into Germany every week for shopping, but I guess regularly about every 4 to 6 weeks. The very good supermarket we use has a very large car park and every time we're there cars with Swiss reg plates outnumber the local Germans at least 2 to 1.

This is now real thread drift, sorry OP.

Bob, nearer the time if you want to stop by drop me a PM.

Cheers

AES

 

[Lons]

If you make it mate, we'll find somewhere to park it, don't worry.

Where are your Aunt & Uncle? We're about 20 mins drive from the nearest border (Weil am Rhein).

We don't cross into Germany every week for shopping, but I guess regularly about every 4 to 6 weeks. The very good supermarket we use has a very large car park and every time we're there cars with Swiss reg plates outnumber the local Germans at least 2 to 1.

This is now real thread drift, sorry OP.

Bob, nearer the time if you want to stop by drop me a PM.

Cheers

AES

Yea sorry about the drift as well, last post I promise.
have lost their address as only contact via email these days and we never got around to visiting. Until recently they came to the UK a couple of times a year to visit kids but from memory its Bad Zurzach close to the border.

 

[AES]

OK, I know where that is. Much nearer to Zurich than we are, but I used to pass through often when I was going to Zurich airport regularly.

Anyway, just as you say ...........

AES