Which lathe to buy?

[Pammary]

Hi All, I am new to this forum and to woodturning. Although I have watched lots of YouTube videos and done lots of research, I cannot make a decision. I have fine tuned my choice down to 4 lathes and would appreciate any advice given that would help me make the right decision. The following lathes have similar specs and prices but reliability and after sales service is most important to me as a beginner:

Draper 60989 (not much info online)
Charnwood W824 (recently replaced the W821 and not much info online of this model)
Record Power DML305
Axminster AH1218VS

Three out of the 4 have variable speed which seems to me as preferable.

Many thanks

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Welcome.....without prejudging any of the name brands you list, I would recommend you make variable speed a MUST. I would also want an MT2 spindle and tailstock quill and preferably an M33/3.5 thread size as both of those are fast becoming the industry standards and therefore it will massively widen the compatibility for the accessories you will doubtless buy in the future ie chucks, centres and other tooling that seats in the morse taper.

Everything beyond that is down to capacity (how big a bowl will swing over the bed bars), quality and personal choice.

The old adage always applies with lathes which is to buy bigger than you think you'll need so you have room to expand and grow because you will! 3 months in if you don't so this you'll just be back to the market.

 

[woodpig]

Variable speed is very useful so I second what Bob said. I know it's more money but a mate has the Record Power DML320 and it's a nice variable speed machine with a slightly better spindle capacity than most Lathes in its class. I have the Axminster AT1416VS which is very nice for a small lathe with a good bowl capacity but the recent price increases make it look quite expensive now.

There is a guy on here that was selling one of the old Record Power lathes but with a variable speed drive. It was a steal if I remember at £275. Might be worth a look if it's within travelling distance.

Edit: Possibly over budget but another one to look at is the Nova.

http://johndaviswoodturning.com/shop/no ... idi-lathe/

 

[woodpig]

Here's the lathe for sale unless it's gone on eBay.

for-sale-record-power-cl-1-with-1-2hp-varispeed-upgrade-t100775.html

 

[Pammary]

Many thanks for all the advice. Basic to most of you but as a beginner I don't know what a M33x3.5 is? Only one lathe of my list has it but that is the Record Power which does not have variable speed. Is it more preferable to having the VS?

I did look at the CL1 for sale but being in Bournemouth is too far for me - did look a good deal though.

 

[Pammary]

Could I ask another question - some have a spindle size of 1"x 8tpi and some ¾" x 16tpi - which is preferable and why?

 

[Dalboy]

I don't know what a M33x3.5 is? Only one lathe of my list has it but that is the Record Power which does not have variable speed..

That is the spindle size. There are many sizes depending on the manufacturer of the lathes this is becoming a very popular size and has 2mt

Could I ask another question - some have a spindle size of 1"x 8tpi and some ¾" x 16tpi - which is preferable and why?

It is all down to personal choice but many would say that they would prefer one that takes a 2mt which means anything above the 1" X 8tpi

 

[Phil Pascoe]

M33 x 3.5 is the spindle size and thread, just like 3/4" x 16tpi is. It's just metric not imperial. There's not much difference between the two you mention, although the 3/4" x 16 is possibly a bit more common (Record, for one). In general the bigger the thread the stronger (and less likelihood of damage), but as the size is increased so because of the size of the lathe, generally, and thus also the price - they will have a smaller market share and therefore fewer chucks and extras. M33 x 3.5 looks as if it's becoming pretty much universal.

Variable speed is great, and I would not go back to fixed speeds ... but having said that, as a first lathe I would say get what suits you best now. If something that suits you in every other way comes along at a great price, go for it. Good as variable is, you won't miss it if you've never had it - and if you carry on with turning you will want bigger, better and more capable, so what you've started with isn't that important. There is a lot to be said for buying second hand a reputable make (Record, Axi, Jet e.g.), as when the time comes to go onwards and upwards you will lose very little - in fact it's not unknown to make a little if you've bought well.

 

[Duncan A]

If you are to upgrade in the future, it is far better not to have to change all of your accessories, so consider this when purchasing now. That means No.2 Morse tapers, and care in choosing your chuck, when you come to buy one - see below.
As stated by others M33 x 3.5mm is a standard spindle size for larger lathes, but at least one of the lathes you listed has a 1" x 8tpi thread - which is pretty much standard for small lathes made in China and sold under many different names here. Either would serve you well but remember that any chucks or faceplates you buy have to have a corresponding thread.

For chucks, this is usually done by changing an insert, but sometimes chucks have to be direct threaded to suit the larger sizes such as M33. For example, a Record Power SC4 chuck takes inserts up to and including M33 so it is simple and cheap (abt £15 - £20) to upgrade from a smaller thread to M33. The Robert Sorby Patriot chuck, on the other hand, cannot accept an M33 insert so you would have to use a £40 excert - clumsy and expensive. I don't know about the Axminster chucks.

Keep away from No.1 Morse tapers unless you get a particularly good deal on a Record lathe; virtually everything nowadays uses No.2 Morse tapers so your spur drives and centres would work on pretty much any lathe that you bought.

On a slightly different note, variable speed is indeed worth holding out for, but be aware that some are much more variable than others. Three main types:
Mechanical - have a selection of speeds, accessed only whilst the lathe is running. The mechanism typically needs to be cleaned annually to keep it sweet (straightforward).
Electronic, 3 phase - the best. May well vary speed from around 50rpm up to 3000rpm. Usually rather expensive.
Electronic, dc - found on the cheaper lathes such as the Axi you listed. Very convenient in use, not so torquey as 3 phase, typically offer 450rpm to 3000rpm. The carbon brushes on the motor will need replacing at some point - ask the shop how often. At least one lathe user manual I saw recently said renew every 50 hours! Probably a typo, but may be as well to check (your suggested Axi lathe manual doesn't even mention them).

Better still, buy a nice 2nd hand variable speed lathe, typically 1/2 to 2/3 of the new price and may include some tools, chucks etc. There will no doubt be some coming up for sale around Christmas time as some lucky blighters upgrade!
Good luck,
Duncan

 

[mpcpba]

I agonised over the options when I bought my first lathe 6 months ago as I had no idea what type of turning would interest me the most. i heeded the type of advice about the taper and head stock thread size given above and particularly listened to the advice given elsewhere about variable speed and a headstock which you can turn to allow larger bowls to be worked on.
I went finally for the Record Power CL4 (new model) with the lathe stand and bowl turning extension arm. For a beginner/ intermediate lathe which can tackle a heck of a lot of stuff this was excellent value and is proving to be well up to the task. The variable speed is almost essential I would say and the turnable headstock is very useful if you do get into larger bowl turning.It is also heavy enough not to move around even without the feet being bolted down but can be dissasembled without too much difficulty to move around.
Whilst still being a "full sized" lathe the new model is a bit smaller than the old one so easier to fit into the workshop
The only minor negatives for me are:
- the lack of a lock pin on the headstock to make chuck changing easier
- the lack of a postive lock when you turn the headstock back to in line with the bed.
- due to the bed being round bar it is not such a simple job to remove the tailstock as it cant simply slide off albeit it can still be done
As many advise get the best you can afford. If I had gone for an older or smaller one without a proper robust variable speed I may well have been put off turning- as it is I find I love turning and my eyes are only now opening to the vast range of projects possible.

Ps do budget for a good bandsaw too unless you intend to buy all your wood in pre cut blanks

Hope that helps!

Cheers

 

[Phil Pascoe]

The only minor negatives for me are:
- the lack of a lock pin on the headstock to make chuck changing easier
- the lack of a postive lock when you turn the headstock back to in line with the bed.

1/ I'm very surprised they didn't rectify that.
2/ Very convenient ... so long as it is accurate - I've one that will take the headstock 1/8" off. (I ended up cutting across the headstock and base with a 1mm cutting disc so I can line it up easily).
"If I had gone for an older or smaller one without a proper robust variable speed I may well have been put off turning ..."
Only because you now know - had you not had it, you wouldn't have missed it. I used a lathe for decades without a variable speed and if asked I would have said I did not consider it important. Now I have a variable, I wouldn't buy anything else.
If the OP is not careful, he'll end up spending £500 + for something he wants to trade up from in six months time.

 

[mpcpba]

Headstock lock pin
I see it on some of the Axminster Trade versions and it is useful. It just means that you don't have to use a flat spanner on the shaft and a c spanner on the chuck. Also as the chuck can wind on pretty tight it means that you do have to develop the knack of a quick snatch to un grip it from the shaft. Quite easy to do but a locking pin is better.
Headstock alignment lock
The lack of a headstock alignment pin when going back to parallel can certainly be an issue if you then go back to turn a spindle without checking that centres are spot on. Overcome by simply scribing a line across the castings which I match up and that does seem to get me almost spot on each time.
Variable Speed
Whilst I would have to accept the 'if you don't have it you won't miss it' philosophy I would say that for a beginner having it right from the off is such a good idea. Being able to simply and easily turn speed down when a blank is a bit wobbly and then speed it up when it gets trued up makes learning so much easier - and safer too!
I suppose if someone has a very clear aim of turning only smaller items, spindles or pens then the choice of a first lathe gets a lot simpler and less demanding. But if you do want to be able to grow in different directions as your skills develop then either cough up to start with or accept that you will definitely want to move on from a starter lathe after a year and accept the inevitable.

Now in addition to the comments I have made a reversible direction lathe would also be nice possibly with a dropped bed section and a moveable on/off switch so it can be just where you want it... so who am I to talk?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I'm not saying that for a beginner having it (VS) right from the off isn't a good idea, I'm just of the opinion that the OP shouldn't turn down an otherwise perfect lathe because it hasn't got it, that's all. For a first lathe, it's not the be all and end all. Wouldn't we all like reverse?

 

[woodpig]

I'm not saying that for a beginner having it (VS) right from the off isn't a good idea, I'm just of the opinion that the OP shouldn't turn down an otherwise perfect lathe because it hasn't got it, that's all. For a first lathe, it's not the be all and end all. Wouldn't we all like reverse?

Yes agreed. Nothing wrong with getting some turning under you belt so to speak with a basic lathe without VS, especially if it's a good price.