There are shavings and then there are SHAVINGS!!

[jimi43]

If you haven't read Konrad's blog lately on the Sauer and Steiner website....you will have missed this....

Amazing is an understatement!

Gobsmacking is more accurate!!!

Read the rest HERE.

Cheers

Jim

 

[Blister]

Jim

its not shavings , its wet toilet paper :wink:

If it is shavings :shock: :shock: :shock:

 

[stevebuk]

i dont own a plane nor do i know how to use one properly, but i read that blog and really enjoyed it, got to admire the enthusiasm these guys have..

 

[matthewwh]

He's done a nice job with his Aled kit as well I see......

.

Where on earth does he get lumps of box that big????

 

[Waka]

Jolly good shavings what, not sure I can get my planes to take them that thin.

 

[woodbloke]

Jolly good shavings what, not sure I can get my planes to take them that thin.

For the uninitiated, there's a gloat in there somewhere :lol: - Rob

 

[Alf]

Too subtle for me... :lol:

Amazing shaving, but it's appearance is reminding me of tripe for some reason, so my enthusiasm for it is irretrievably dampened.

 

[yetloh]

If you think that's a big lump of box, Matthew, have a look at Karl Holtey's site. No idea where he gets it from and I don't blame him for being unwilling to tell.

Jim

 

[jimi43]

His whole work is out of the "box" Jim!!



That's not a shaving...that's a botanical slide sample!

Jim

 

[woodbloke]

I've mentioned this before as it's one of my pet hobby horses, but this sort of thing is not difficult to achieve. The timber looks to be a nice piece of very mild, straight grained maple. In fact I used a S&S plane at the last Axminster show some years ago now and a very similar piece of timber was provided for the test.
It is a pleasant experience to produce a shaving(s) like this but bears no relation (in my view anyway) to the true capabilities of the tool. A well set up Record No4 with a decent blade will produce the same sort of result - Rob

 

[Karl]

Is this more to your liking Rob?

Nice half thou shaving from some q/s oak (with a nice Clifton No7).

Cheers

Karl

 

[Argus]

.


Why?

I can't get excited about what comes out of the top of a plane.


Shavings of any description end up in the "rubbish" (no, not rubbish, I originally wrote c-r-a-p box) and then on to the fire.

The planed finish is more to the point - he forgot to take a photo of that.


.

 

[woodbrains]

I think you'll find the S&S shaving is endgrain, which does make it a little more remarkable, maple or not. It is not too difficult to do if your plane iron is extremely sharp and the mouth tiny. I regularly do the same with a well tuned Stanley block plane, admitedly with a Hock iron, sharpened on a 6000 Japanese water stone. It is important to produce good shavings, rubbish bin fodder excepted. A plane tuned well enough to do this gives the best finished surfaces. If the shavings are poor, so is the surface.

Mike.

 

[newt]

I don't see why you need a tight mouth for end grain. My Veritas apron plane has a fixed mouth of several mm, and it is very very good on end grain.

 

[woodbrains]

I don't see why you need a tight mouth for end grain.

Planes for endgrain, such as shoulder planes and LA block planes have traditionally had adjustable mouths, to keep the opening slight. It is funny that isn't it?

I'm amazed at how many people make comments about not seeing the point of needing the cutter 'that sharp' or the plane's sole 'that flat' or the mouth 'that tight'. etc. etc. Once tried, however, they usually comment on having never before done work 'that good'. Also amusing!

Mike.

 

[newt]

I don't see why you need a tight mouth for end grain.

Planes for endgrain, such as shoulder planes and LA block planes have traditionally had adjustable mouths, to keep the opening slight. It is funny that isn't it?

I'm amazed at how many people make comments about not seeing the point of needing the cutter 'that sharp' or the plane's sole 'that flat' or the mouth 'that tight'. etc. etc. Once tried, however, they usually comment on having never before done work 'that good'. Also amusing!

Mike.

Ok woodbrains you can then tell why you need a tight mouth for end grain. The pros state that you need to optimise the mouth for long grain, tight particularly when smoothing and all the theory supports that. But I can see no reason for a tight mouth for end grain, you are slicing across the fibres not lifting them like long grain. Several books that state this Gareth Hack being one, I guess they are wrong. I find your comments confusing and not funny, if you always need a tight mouth ( clearly one reason for adjustment is for different thickness shavings) which you imply why then make it adjustable. I don't think you have really understood or have not thought about the question, I am asking why.

 

[woodbrains]

There is clearly a contradiction here, that is lost on some people. You simply cannot have it both ways. If a veritas apron plane has a wide mouth and you argue that endgrain is not fussy about this, then you cannot pursue the logic that adjustable mouth planes are to accommodate different thicknesses of shaving. We are talking about endgrain specific planes here (Shoulder and LA block) not ones that are used with long grain. As with many things, there are often more than one reason for a thing to be the way it is. A slight mouth opening is not just to support the wood ahead of the lifting shaving (to minimise tearout). It is also to prevent the wedge shaped cutter for its natural tendency to want to burrow deeper into the wood. Obviously it cannot do this as the planes sole following behind prevents it, but if the mouth is wide, the pressure drop ahead of the cutter as the shaving is produced will encourage the cutter to try to dig deeper. When this tendency is checked and then dug again then checked again, in rapid succession, is what causes chatter (one of the causes at least). A fine mouth also allows more control at the beginning and end of the cut. On endgrain especially there is a tendancy for the plane to try to take a large bite, when starting the cut, if the mouth is gaping.

I guarantee that the S&S plane that produced the endgrain shaving which prompted the thread will have a very sharp blade and an extremely tight mouth opening. As are planes by Karl Holtey, Steve knight, HNT Gordon and all other high quality, high performance tools. There is no reason for us not to make our tools as good as they can be, too.

As for Garret Hack, I'm not sure that he was not in fact talking about cross grain planing, such as planing a tenon cheek to fit it's mortice, when the planes mouth opening would not be critical. If he truly does believe that a plane's mouth has no bearing on its performance when planing end grain, then I am saying he is wrong, absolutely. I have had enough experience (25+ years) and know enough professional fine furniture makers, both in Britain and America that bears out the fact. Incidentally, Garret Hack is a big fan of Holtey planes and I'm not sure he would start telling him that his formula is all wrong.

Mike.

 

[newt]

Mike I have just planed some end grain cherry with a veritas medium shoulder plane with the mouth set very tight to produce a 1 thou shaving. I opened up the mouth to 1.5 mm and produced the same 1 thou shaving ( not a very scientific experiment I accept). You will have to take my word for this no camera at present. I guess it is a matter of degree, also I assume the SS plane was a fixed mouth so no way of establishing if it would work with a wider mouth. I am only interested from a theory perspective as there clearly is a difference in how a blade will behave when cutting long grain v endgrain. I take your point about cross grain. I am not saying that a tight mouth will not produce good results on end grain, of course it will, all I am suggesting is that it is not as critical when you are dealing with a problem long grain.

 

[woodbloke]

... and an extremely tight mouth opening. As are planes by Karl Holtey

Mike.

Wrong. I used David Charlesworth's low angle Holtey smoother at Rycotwood recently. The mouth on it was not adustable and was around 2mm wide - Rob

 

[Aled Dafis]

... and an extremely tight mouth opening. As are planes by Karl Holtey

Mike.

Wrong. I used David Charlesworth's low angle Holtey smoother at Rycotwood recently. The mouth on it was not adustable and was around 2mm wide - Rob

I was just about to say exactly the same, Karl Holtey's planes are known to have fairly wide mouths, but perform amazingly, as do Konrad Sauer's.

Cheers
Aled

P.S. I've not been around here for a long while, so "Hi!"