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 Post subject: Record T5?
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2017, 13:46 
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I'm squaring wood with a bandsaw and plane, so made a simple shooting board for end grain and find it ok for shorter planing with the grain. I intend to make a longer one for longer lengths with the grain. The thing is, holding the plane is hurting my hand after a while. I've used candle wax on the side and base of the plane and keeping the blade sharp but after a while it still hurts.

The only new shooting planes I can see online are £200+, and used Record T5 online for maybe a bit under £100 and I don't know the condition till I get it sent. Does anyone currently sell a cheaper shooting plane (I've searched and can't find one), or can you adapt an ordinary plane without permanently altering the base?

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Record T5?
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2017, 14:39 
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I don't know what you are making, but it helps to be conservative about what to shoot and what not. Handtool work asks for smart use of the tools. Do as little as possible. Not every stick needs to be squared on six sides. Hell, most only need two or three straight sides! Your post sounds like you are still in machine operation mode when you are using handtools.


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 Post subject: Re: Record T5?
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2017, 15:13 
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There are indeed "ways" to make shooting better/easier.

But in this instance, I firmly agree with Corneel - lots of shooting work is most likely not the answer to what you're doing.

Unless you persuade us otherwise.

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 Post subject: Re: Record T5?
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2017, 15:38 
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I have rough sawn planks that I want to size, plane and square, in order to glue them together. For boxes and table tops.

What other method should I be using? I don't really understand how wanting to plane and square wood is tricky to understand, but that's probably me.


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 Post subject: Re: Record T5?
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2017, 15:44 
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Here's how it tends to work today in many professional workshops,

1. large cross section timber (larger than say 30mm x 75mm) but too short to be safely cut on a table or mitre saw, square the end using a hand plane working to a knife line with the workpiece held in a vice, so no shooting board needed.
2. small cross section timber but too short to be safely cut on a table or mitre saw, square the end with a shooting board
3. As scenario 1 or 2 but with multiple workpieces, square the ends with a disc sander. Doesn't have to be an expensive disc sander, often will have a simple wooden fence fastened on with a couple of G-Cramps. You can work to a knife line or just sneak up on the desired length by kissing the workpiece to the disc then testing the fit

Modern abrasives have been a game changer, consequently most workshops now use disc sanders for a high percentage of end grain squaring (this applies to high end/high skill workshops as well as to low cost operations). You won't read about this in the classic woodworking textbooks because abrasive papers were either carp or prohibitively expensive when they were written. But given that you can pick up a decent used 10" disc sander for £50, so cheaper than a T5, the reality of real life woodworking is that shooting boards tend to be reserved for more specialised tasks.

The other thing I'd emphasise is that many professional or experienced woodworkers would only think about using a shooting board on pretty small cross section timber, the figures I quoted in scenario 1 is an upper limit, in practise many experienced makers only get out the shooting board for stuff smaller than say 20mm x 50mm.

Long grain is different, and here shooting boards get far more use in professional workshops than hobbyists might imagine, from drawer bottoms to veneers, long grain shooting boards are frequently employed.


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 Post subject: Re: Record T5?
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2017, 16:51 
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Thanks Custard, that's really helpful. I think the key difference between me and those scenarios is the word 'experienced' - I've tried planing end and along the grain freehand and I'm still working on that but tbh, if I want two boards to glue flush along their length, my planing's not up to it yet. I don't have a table or mitre saw, but could think about a disc sander. Is dust extraction on them good? - dust worries me, especially as I'm working in a garage that's integral to the house with kids in it.

As for long grain, should I soldier on with my 5 1/2 plane and man up a bit, or is a shooting plane normal for that?


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 Post subject: Re: Record T5?
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2017, 17:10 
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Search for hotdog handle, if you want to improve shooting board comfort.

For a tabletpp you don't need absolute square ends. Glue up the top a bit oversize, saw the ends and clean up with a plane.

For boxes, yes this is prime shooting board teritory! But there are only four corners on a box, not enough to wallow in pain!

For long grain it's way better to learn jointing with a tryplane or jointer plane. There are plenty of threads here explaining how to.


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 Post subject: Re: Record T5?
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2017, 17:35 
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Need to be able to shoot end grain in a vice! Hard to manipulate a wide carcase side on a shooting board.


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 Post subject: Re: Record T5?
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2017, 17:42 
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Corneel wrote:
Search for hotdog handle, if you want to improve shooting board comfort.

That could be the answer - I didn't know you can just get the handle and fit it to the side of a plane. The Lie-Nielson one I found in a search seems to be for specific planes of theirs, but I found this, which looks like it might do the trick:
http://www.leevalley.com/us/newsletters ... ticle1.htm
Thanks!

CStanford wrote:
Need to be able to shoot end grain in a vice! Hard to manipulate a wide carcase side on a shooting board.

I'm working on it...


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 Post subject: Re: Record T5?
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2017, 17:43 
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I don't know what kind of bench you have, but if it's flat that will simplify things.
Have you thought of using a birds mouth ?
I would not be fixated on the T5 (although I have never used one)
You can make your own handle ...type in Alan Peters plane handle if you really want.
I do wonder if a no.5 would be a wee bit easier, but not much difference really.

Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Record T5?
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2017, 17:57 
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Ttrees wrote:
I don't know what kind of bench you have, but if it's flat that will simplify things.
Have you thought of using a birds mouth ?

Thanks Tom. I don't know what a bird's mouth is! Well, except in the sense that we all know. I did a search and it's a joint?


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 Post subject: Re: Record T5?
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2017, 18:07 
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You need to make one of these.

ImageShooting board miter attachment by Pete Maddex, on Flickr

Its a piece of plywood cut to fit the shape of the side of your plane a piece on the top with the hook, a couple of shaped pieces on the in side up against the frog and the web in front of the mouth to transfer the force.
Its much better than a glove.
I have some better pictures on Photobucket but I am not paying $399.99 a year to link them.

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 Post subject: Re: Record T5?
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2017, 18:34 
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Hi Chris
Its just a V shape cut into some wood.
I recently made one from scrap plywood in about 1 minute for the small stuff I have been processing.
Tico Vogt demonstrates his planing stop one on youtube
Even if you still decide to use the shooting board, this will do the rough work first.
Its very helpful to have a dead flat surface for checking first, so you would need only one pass to save your hands.
I would find this instance a perfect excuse to get a no.5 and put a small camber on it, but I like having planes :D

That's a rather nice jig Pete

Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Record T5?
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2017, 19:26 
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If your jointing two boards together you don't need a shooting board. The easiest and simplest solution irrespective of your planing ability is to lay the boards down face up and then fold them up together like a book. The edge on the bench is the edge to be planned. Clamp the two boards as they are and now and plane the edge. If you don't plane square, it doesn't matter, when the boards are put together any angular error is cancelled out as each board is a mirror image of the other in terms of the angle planed on the edge. Perfect joints every time!


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 Post subject: Re: Record T5?
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2017, 20:51 
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Corneel wrote:
For long grain it's way better to learn jointing with a tryplane or jointer plane.


True enough...as long as the boards are the reasonably thick stuff you would use for a table top or something similar.

But there are plenty of occasions in woodworking where you're jointing up thin stuff, say 8mm thick drawer bottoms, 6mm cabinet backs, or even 1.5mm saw cut veneers. A newcomer to woodworking will really struggle balancing a plane on an edge thinner than 18mm, and even an experienced maker starts to find it tricky once you drop below about 12mm. In those circumstances a long grain shooting board is the best way to go.


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