Jet JSS-16 first cuts

[Walney Col]

I don't normally get involved in this type of thread anymore but your solution to this problem is simple.

I've already done everything you suggested apart from filing out the mounting holes and the maths are telling me that wouldn't be enough to fix it. If there's 1mm side to side movement over the 18mm vertical blade travel it means that the top and bottom mounting holes over a 127mm long blade are in the region of 7mm out of alignment horizontally. And with the best will in the world there's no way you could file 3.5mm+ out of opposing sides of the 2 mounting holes, the clamps simply don't have that much meat in them.

In any case if, I bought it to use, not to fix.

Col.

 

[Walney Col]

If it helps, I used M4 x 15mm stainless steel caphead bolts in the clamps on my Axminster AWVFS scroll saw. They are a lot stronger and less prone to rounding off than the chinese plastic bolts supplied as standard.

I bought a couple of 40mm long indexable handles for mine to achieve the same result. And I too took the dremel to both clamps in order to make them tighten more reliable - and that appears to have worked well. Sadly the amount of side to side runout looks to be far too great in my case to just file out the mounting holes. :-(

Col.

 

[Scrollerman]

Hi Col,
You've had many replies to your problem that haven't worked.
Did you try my suggestions which I now repost below ?

"A couple of things to try are :
If your machine allows it, you could try adjusting the position of the 'cam' on the rotor arm of the motor to the left by 1/16".
If that's not possible, try adding a 1/16" shim/washer to the bottom linkage between the motor cam and bottom arm.
Once you confirm how far out the vertical alingment is, just convert my suggested sizes as quoted by you, to what's required."

 

[Walney Col]

Hi Col,
You've had many replies to your problem that haven't worked.
Did you try my suggestions which I now repost below ?

"A couple of things to try are :
If your machine allows it, you could try adjusting the position of the 'cam' on the rotor arm of the motor to the left by 1/16".
If that's not possible, try adding a 1/16" shim/washer to the bottom linkage between the motor cam and bottom arm.
Once you confirm how far out the vertical alingment is, just convert my suggested sizes as quoted by you, to what's required."

I'm not ignoring your suggestion scrollerman and I do understand what you mean. It's just that the misalignment on my saw is in excess of 6mm (the front of the bottom arm being in the region of 7mm to the right of the front of the top arm) and there simply isn't that amount of wriggle room to play with anywhere. Another thing is that I'm still waiting to hear from Axminster. The saw's only a week old and 1mm adjustment I dare say I'd happily set to and see what I could do, but a 6mm+ misalignment is clearly a manufacturing defect and fixing it (even if it's possible) would surely render the warranty null and void.

What's so annoying about it is that for £50 I could have picked a second hand saw up off ebay in which case I'd happily have taken it to bits and done whatever it'd take to fix it.

Col.

 

[Scrollerman]

Hi Col,
You've had many replies to your problem that haven't worked.
Did you try my suggestions which I now repost below ?

"A couple of things to try are :
If your machine allows it, you could try adjusting the position of the 'cam' on the rotor arm of the motor to the left by 1/16".
If that's not possible, try adding a 1/16" shim/washer to the bottom linkage between the motor cam and bottom arm.
Once you confirm how far out the vertical alingment is, just convert my suggested sizes as quoted by you, to what's required."

I'm not ignoring your suggestion scrollerman and I do understand what you mean. It's just that the misalignment on my saw is in excess of 6mm (the front of the bottom arm being in the region of 7mm to the right of the front of the top arm) and there simply isn't that amount of wriggle room to play with anywhere. Another thing is that I'm still waiting to hear from Axminster. The saw's only a week old and 1mm adjustment I dare say I'd happily set to and see what I could do, but a 6mm+ misalignment is clearly a manufacturing defect and fixing it (even if it's possible) would surely render the warranty null and void.

What's so annoying about it is that for £50 I could have picked a second hand saw up off ebay in which case I'd happily have taken it to bits and done whatever it'd take to fix it.

Col.

Hi Col,
OK, so please try this and take the blade out first.
Disconnect the bottom arm linkage to the motor cam so both arms are free of bias/pressure.
Put a blade back in and tension as normal, then check the vertical movement.
Do you get a different measurement ?

 

[Walney Col]

Hi Col,
OK, so please try this and take the blade out first.
Disconnect the bottom arm linkage to the motor cam so both arms are free of bias/pressure.
Put a blade back in and tension as normal, then check the vertical movement.
Do you get a different measurement ?

Hi Scrollerman.

I did as you suggested and the blade runout while the lower arm was free of any pressure from the drive cam wasn't noticeably different, and neither was there any side play in the lower arm bearing which would have allowed it to move by more than a couple of thou either side anyway.

So I found a length of welding rod which was a snug fit in the threaded blade clamp mounting holes and tried to gauge the overall runout over the length of the blade and as you can see the arms are what I'd describe as nowhere near in alignment.

It's not quite the 7mm misalignment I'd previously estimated it could be, but neither could it be described (IMO) as a reasonable machining tolerance given how vital blade alignment is to any scroll saw. Out of curiosity, would you agree with that Scrollerman or do you still think it may be a salvageable situation without having to machine dedicated top and bottom clamps with at a 4 or 5mm offset?

I still like the rest of the saw, though the vibration already seems noticeably worse at full speed (impossible to use it) than it was straight out of the box. Rightly or wrongly I'm putting that down to the newly added weight of the indexable levers I've added to improve clamping, adding a little bit of weight elsewhere in the mechanism to try and counteract it doesn't phase me though so that's good.

I'd welcome input from anyone as to whether the misalignment as shown in today's photos should be considered normal or not. My position is that as a time served engineer I know I could have got better alignment than that if I'd built the whole thing out of wood.

Col.

 

[jonluv]

I know as little about engineering as is humanly possible but the clamps you have look like the ones on a Sealey scroll saw
So this may be possible

On Delta some saws the clamp has 2 bolts one to tighten( hold) the blade in and the other on the opposite side of the clamp to align the blade vertical, the reason is that there is a hell of a difference in the thickness os say a 01 and a 12 blade

Perhaps you could tap a hole to fit an adjusting screw ???


John

 

[Walney Col]

Perhaps you could tap a hole to fit an adjusting screw ???

John

Thanks for the comment John. If it were a second hand saw I'm sure I could do something along those lines but on the off chance it has to go back for any reason I don't want to do anything that could void the warranty.

Col.

 

[jonluv]

Of course ! Sorry my brain was not in gear

But it is a shame that manufacturers or perhaps even buyers do not investigate quality when supplying goods.

Must say I first started scrolling in 1947 and have never had a brand new scroll saw and reading some of the comments on the Forum perhaps that is not such a bad thing.

Good luck

John

 

[Scrollerman]

Hi Col,
Thanks for taking the time to post such informative pictures.
It's no wonder you are getting excessive vibration with such a mis-alignment !
I'm glad you disconnected the bottom arm from the motor as it now gives a much clearer picture of what's going on with no bias from the motor connection.
Your 2nd pic shows that the top arm is equally spaced within the saws casing so that's a good pointer it's OK machining wise.
This then points to the bottom arm or casing machining of the bearing housing being at fault as I can't think of anything else that would cause the bottom arm to be so far out apart from a twisted frame !
The bottom clamp shows to be skew-wiff but I'd be amazed if if you had not taken that into account so just give yourself a slap on the wrist for not straightening it lol !
However, if the bottom clamp was straightened, it would just add to the problem given it's position in the pic.

I know by your comments you have the abilty to correct the bearing machining problem, but why should you on a new machine ?
You have a strong case for getting your money back with the pics to back up the problem.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[Walney Col]

Thanks Scrollerman, it's reassuring to know that someone with a lot more experience than me thinks it's over the top too.

And yes I did know about the angled clamps, (both top and bottom - though I had to take the top one off to put the rod in) they were put on like that in an attempt to minimise the side to side blade movement so I could carry on cutting but all that happened is that the blade wound up twisted so badly it didn't know which way to cut so I've not been using it at all.

I feel much better now about speaking to axminster tomorrow, but given that the replacement clamps they sent me were both faulty in the same way as the original ones I have little hope of an exchange saw being any better, so unless they're exceptional sales people I think I'll just ask for a refund.

Thanks again for all your help and advise.

Col.

 

[ardenwoodcraft]

Hi Col,

Re:- Your last post, if you are going back to axminster to ask for a refund.

Before you take the saw back you could try to gently bend the bottom arm to the left as per your photos to see if it could be brought back into alignment with the top arm. If it doesn't work then you get your refund. If it does work you have a usable scroll saw.

I think if you went for a replacement from axminster you may well end up with a saw with identical problems, as these types of scroll saw all seem to come from clone central in china where thousands are made exactly the same and just painted and labelled differently at the end of the production line.

 

[Walney Col]

Hi Col,

Re:- Your last post, if you are going back to axminster to ask for a refund.

Before you take the saw back you could try to gently bend the bottom arm to the left as per your photos to see if it could be brought back into alignment with the top arm. If it doesn't work then you get your refund. If it does work you have a usable scroll saw.

I think if you went for a replacement from axminster you may well end up with a saw with identical problems, as these types of scroll saw all seem to come from clone central in china where thousands are made exactly the same and just painted and labelled differently at the end of the production line.

Thanks for the suggestion and advice. I checked the state of the bottom arm as I went along, it's cast alloy, very rigid, and couldn't be bent without applying heat for fear of permanent damage and perhaps even breaking. The scroll saw is now packed up and the Axminster van will be calling to take it back probably tomorrow. I was offered a replacement but declined it for the exact reason that you probably would... namely what I saw as the high likelihood of it's replacement having similar defects.

So I'm now on the lookout for another saw. Probably a used one this time as one of the most exasperating aspects of the whole episode has been the fear of voiding the warranty and suddenly finding myself in the position of needing it 6 months down the road.

Col.

 

[Scrollerman]

Thanks Scrollerman, it's reassuring to know that someone with a lot more experience than me thinks it's over the top too.

And yes I did know about the angled clamps, (both top and bottom - though I had to take the top one off to put the rod in) they were put on like that in an attempt to minimise the side to side blade movement so I could carry on cutting but all that happened is that the blade wound up twisted so badly it didn't know which way to cut so I've not been using it at all.

I feel much better now about speaking to axminster tomorrow, but given that the replacement clamps they sent me were both faulty in the same way as the original ones I have little hope of an exchange saw being any better, so unless they're exceptional sales people I think I'll just ask for a refund.

Thanks again for all your help and advise.

Col.

Hi Col. No problem m8 as that's what this forum is all about.
Just to put your mind at rest, I have bought many small items and several woodworking machines from Axminster and found them to be very helpful if a problem arises.
In fact, I can't fault them for customer service and no, I am not connected to Axminster in any way other than being a customer !
I am pretty sure you will get a refund without any hassle.

 

[Walney Col]

Hi Col. No problem m8 as that's what this forum is all about.
Just to put your mind at rest, I have bought many small items and several woodworking machines from Axminster and found them to be very helpful if a problem arises.

I couldn't agree more about Axminster, their staff really did make asking for a refund rather than a replacement the less than stomach churning procedure I usually find it to be. I only wish Jet had lived up to it's reputation as a serious machine tool manufacturer as well but sadly that wasn't to be.

I'm now in the market for another saw as my old banger has already been donated to my youngest daughter. I'm looking at second hand this time since I've resigned myself to the fact that I don't have the money for even a half decent new one.

Col.

 

[Scrollerman]

Glad you got a result Col. =D>

 

[don83000]

Just my luck had not seen this post and only this morning ordered a JSS-16 so it now looks like I'm in for a load of grief,just what I need. I only made my mind up today having beeg going round the forums for a week and most forums including this one seem to rate the JSS-16. Live and learn.

Don (homer)

 

[Walney Col]

Don't get too downhearted yet Don you might well get a good one. Axminster stand by everything the sell and will offer to replace it immediately or refund you if it's not up to par and the Jet 16 does have some nice features even if quality control is somewhat haphazard.

 

[Tim_H]

I have a refurbished one from Axminster and apart from the blade holders needing a bit of tlc (replacement holders are to be fair only a couple of quid so not high end quality) I am happy with it for my first saw.

 

[don83000]

Thanks guys maybe I should hope I get one that was made mid week lol. What should I check for and in what order of importance when it arrives. There has been a mention of "indexed handles" are these a good idea whatever they are.

Thanks Don.