New Veritas Combination Plane

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Of course, Jacob. Knife the lines. Plane close. Knife a bit more to deepen the line. Plane again. Then turn the plane to the horizontal and plane to the lines to clean up. Now plane some more in the vertical. Don't forget to knife the lines to make it easier to plane down. Then repeat planing to the wall in the horizontal. Do it over again ...

Or, you could do it on one go with a nickered plane.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Jacob]

Of course, Jacob. Knife the lines. Plane close. Knife a bit more to deepen the line. Plane again. Then turn the plane to the horizontal and plane to the lines to clean up. Now plane some more in the vertical. Don't forget to knife the lines to make it easier to plane down. Then repeat planing to the wall in the horizontal. Do it over again ...

Or, you could do it on one go with a nickered plane.

Regards from Perth

Derek

No you haven't quite got it Derek:
You knife the lines with the nicker (or a gauge, knife, anything).
Then start the rebate.
After one pass you have an edge and you can remove the nicker, fence etc - or start to use any rebate plane without them.
Subsequent passes tend to be away from the wall but you carry on until you hit the line of the floor.
Then you turn the plane for the last pass (or two) to clean up the wall.
It's very simple and effective, though I admit; not obvious.
If you only have a rebate plane with no attachments you work to gauge/knife lines, but start the cut slightly away from the top line (using thumb as a fence), which you don't finish until you get to the last passes, as above.
Just because a tool has attachments, bells, whistles, brass knobs, it doesn't mean you must use them and you may even find it's easier if you just bin them once and for all!

 

[Mangokid]

There seems to be quite a bit of enthusiasm for this new veritas plane on the US forums, decidedly less so here, judging by this topics replies. I find that interesting, from the point of view of someone who doesn't yet own a plough/combination plane but would like one soon.

Just curious if anyone is actually planning to buy one when it is released?

Would be nice to see a review not linked to a magazine etc, or by someone linked to veritas.

 

[AndyT]

Could I just suggest that all generalisations are false? :wink:

Although a dedicated rebate plane such as the Stanley 78 is good for rebates, it won't cut these housings

 

[PAC1]

There seems to be quite a bit of enthusiasm for this new veritas plane on the US forums, decidedly less so here, judging by this topics replies. I find that interesting, from the point of view of someone who doesn't yet own a plough/combination plane but would like one soon.

Just curious if anyone is actually planning to buy one when it is released?

Would be nice to see a review not linked to a magazine etc, or by someone linked to veritas.

I think if you are in the market for a combination plane then, sure give this serious consideration. As is typical with Veritas they do improve rather than copy, so I have no doubt it is much better than my old 45. The (k)nickers and screw adjustments look far better and as has been said no doubt it locks down properly rather than sliding over as you work away (as the 45 does). I looked at all the options when I bought their Router plane which is a vast improvement on Stanley, Record and even LN! But bear in mind a combination plane is a compromise tool that does not cut rebates as well as a dedicated rebate plane and as long as time is not money setting up a combination plane is interesting (it is easy to see why an electric router is so popular). Hopefully they will increase the range of cutters.
The cost is about 2 to 3 times the price of a 45 with most of its fences and cutters from an internet market, but the Veritas only comes with one cutter! It is about the same price as my largest electric router.
I thought Derek's review was good.

 

[Mangokid]

I think if you are in the market for a combination plane then, sure give this serious consideration. As is typical with Veritas they do improve rather than copy, so I have no doubt it is much better than my old 45. The (k)nickers and screw adjustments look far better and as has been said no doubt it locks down properly rather than sliding over as you work away (as the 45 does). I looked at all the options when I bought their Router plane which is a vast improvement on Stanley, Record and even LN! But bear in mind a combination plane is a compromise tool that does not cut rebates as well as a dedicated rebate plane and as long as time is not money setting up a combination plane is interesting (it is easy to see why an electric router is so popular). Hopefully they will increase the range of cutters.
The cost is about 2 to 3 times the price of a 45 with most of its fences and cutters from an internet market, but the Veritas only comes with one cutter! It is about the same price as my largest electric router.
I thought Derek's review was good.

Thanks, certainly not ruling out a 45 or similar and not at all knocking derek'sreview, I thought it was great and very interesting to read. Just nice to get others views also if anyone is planning to buy it.

 

[bertikus_maximus]

From the pdf factsheet "And, although the Stanley #45 remains a beautiful example of ornate Victorian metalwork, it is nevertheless not the easiest plane to set up or use".

Now, I can't comment for certain - having only just seen the video of this plane - but something tells me having 17 brass knobs might meant that woodworkers will share a similar sentiment about this new Veritas version!

 

[swagman]

Middle Pitch would have been a smart move.

 

[Andy Kev.]

I suppose the key question is that if Veritas has indeed ironed out the minor faults or niggles which are sometimes attributed to the Stanleys and Records, will people feel that the resultant reliability and accuracy are worth the price?

Think of it in the wider context of someone's total tool budget. I suggested recently that a realistic budget for a furniture making hand tool kit might be around £2,000. Start including stuff like this and that total budget (for hand tools only) could easily rise to well over £5,000.

I'm not saying that's right or wrong, people are entitled to spend their money any way they choose, but I'm pointing out that woodworking isn't a particularly cheap hobby. But if you aspire to these type of premium tools then there's no dodging the fact that it's a pretty pricey hobby!

On a similar theme I heard last week that, based on their latest buying prices with a falling pound, a timber yard that I use regularly will be increasing the ex vat price of American Black Walnut to £110 a cubic foot, that's a 30% increase over the past year.

:shock:

Prompted by your pic of that rather lovely moving fillister from Philly Planes on the other thread, I had a look and it's a fiver more than the Veritas!!!

Obviously a pro has totally different criteria to the amateur but if you had neither and were considering one, would you get the PP which is meant to do one job and does it well or the V which does more things presumably equally well?

 

[Andy Kev.]

For those who may be interested, here's a video explaining the plane in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-5vbSCnCLg

 

[D_W]

I'd kind of like an accounting in a decade of how many of these planes actually got used to "make a short run of moulding".

That sounds like a great idea until you try to do it, and then do it again with real moulding planes and find out how easy the real moulding planes are to use.

A plow plane and a small set of moulding planes would be about the same price as a combination plane with a whole bunch of blades.

 

[Andy Kev.]

I wonder where the notion comes from that combination planes can replace moulding planes. By that I mean mouldings which are more complex than simple beading etc. Has anybody ever produced a combination plane which can do what a set of hollows and rounds can do? Is it indeed actually possible to use a combination plane in that way?

 

[swagman]

Have a look at the higher bed angles traditionally used on wooden rebate and moulding planes and ask yourself why Veritas chose to repeat Stanley's mistake of bedding their combo plane at 45 degrees. There's valid reasons why Basswood is the chosen wood species to demonstrate this planes versatility at tool shows in the USA and Canada.

 

[Andy Kev.]

Have a look at the higher bed angles traditionally used on wooden rebate and moulding planes and ask yourself why Veritas chose to repeat Stanley's mistake of bedding their combo plane at 45 degrees. There's valid reasons why Basswood is the chosen wood species to demonstrate this planes versatility at tool shows in the USA and Canada.

I had to grin at that because I'm not technically competent enough to make those kind of considerations. And I've never even set eyes on a piece of basswood, let alone handled one!

Could you perhaps spell it out for me (and any others who may be clueless)?

What I was actually driving at was the notion that I've sometimes read that combination planes replaced moulding planes when they were introduced, but I've never heard of a combination plane with complex blades and I understand that attempts to produce hollows and rounds shapes have been limited. Has anybody ever attempted to produce e.g. a metal hollows and rounds and/or moulding plane with a lot of interchangeable soles in the manner of the Bridge City Tools small combination plane?

 

[swagman]

Have a look at the higher bed angles traditionally used on wooden rebate and moulding planes and ask yourself why Veritas chose to repeat Stanley's mistake of bedding their combo plane at 45 degrees. There's valid reasons why Basswood is the chosen wood species to demonstrate this planes versatility at tool shows in the USA and Canada.

I had to grin at that because I'm not technically competent enough to make those kind of considerations. And I've never even set eyes on a piece of basswood, let alone handled one!

Could you perhaps spell it out for me (and any others who may be clueless)?

What I was actually driving at was the notion that I've sometimes read that combination planes replaced moulding planes when they were introduced, but I've never heard of a combination plane with complex blades and I understand that attempts to produce hollows and rounds shapes have been limited. Has anybody ever attempted to produce e.g. a metal hollows and rounds and/or moulding plane with a lot of interchangeable soles in the manner of the Bridge City Tools small combination plane?

http://www.wood-database.com/basswood/

The No. 55 came with hollow and round cutters. The No. 45 had a set of four hollow and round soles, and a nosing attachment ( see illustration above ) that could be ordered for the plane. http://www.jonzimmersantiquetools.com/f ... combo.html

 

[Andy Kev.]

Thanks Swagman. So basswood is lime! That explains a few things.

I can imagine a metal plane with interchangeable soles for different profile blades (including of course all the H and Rs) but it would probably be too expensive to produce or there would be too little demand and of course the electric router is dominant in this area.

 

[Jacob]

Thanks Swagman. So basswood is lime! That explains a few things.

I can imagine a metal plane with interchangeable soles for different profile blades (including of course all the H and Rs) but it would probably be too expensive to produce or there would be too little demand and of course the electric router is dominant in this area.

Even more dominant is the spindle moulder - if you've got into making your own cutters. They work out much cheaper than router cutters, perfect replicas can be made, can be adapted how you like, and the machine is vastly more productive and easier to use than a router.

Planing/chiselling/sharpening demos cheating with 'basswood' or similar - there are several well known "experts" who do this on youtube and in the mags. Low level fraud - especially if they are trying to sell something!

 

[swagman]

Planing/chiselling/sharpening demos cheating with 'basswood' or similar - there are several well known "experts" who do this on youtube and in the mags. Low level fraud - especially if they are trying to sell something!

Amen to that Jacob. Some well known white collar workers is my usual reference.

 

[D_W]

From the pdf factsheet "And, although the Stanley #45 remains a beautiful example of ornate Victorian metalwork, it is nevertheless not the easiest plane to set up or use".

Now, I can't comment for certain - having only just seen the video of this plane - but something tells me having 17 brass knobs might meant that woodworkers will share a similar sentiment about this new Veritas version!

I've had 45s, 46s and a 55.

I never thought much about difficulty in setting up with the 45 - it was kind of easy to use, but clattery and no sole other than a skate. That was it's biggest problem.

The 55 was the one that was trouble to set up.

 

[Andy Kev.]

Thanks Swagman. So basswood is lime! That explains a few things.

I can imagine a metal plane with interchangeable soles for different profile blades (including of course all the H and Rs) but it would probably be too expensive to produce or there would be too little demand and of course the electric router is dominant in this area.

Even more dominant is the spindle moulder - if you've got into making your own cutters. They work out much cheaper than router cutters, perfect replicas can be made, can be adapted how you like, and the machine is vastly more productive and easier to use than a router.

Planing/chiselling/sharpening demos cheating with 'basswood' or similar - there are several well known "experts" who do this on youtube and in the mags. Low level fraud - especially if they are trying to sell something!

I'm not too interested in machines - although I do intend to get a bandsaw someday - and I would like to experiment with hollows and rounds. I think it's fascinating that so many different shapes can be produced from just two shapes of cutter.