1st Router advice

[woodbrains]

Hello,

You are not far from me, I could give you a demo of some routers to show you some of the variants. I haven't actually got the Trend T5 I suggested, but I did have the Elu 96 it was based on, which is why I suggested it, back in the day. I'm not suggesting I'll give a full router training course, but I could show you half a dozen routers from a Dremel in a plunge base, through a palm router, a Metabo router very similar to the Trend, through a couple of Bosch and a couple of Tritons, one in a table. I did have a Big Freud until some pipper nicked it from my car last month, but still, there is enough to be going on with.

Mike.

 

[sunnybob]

All 1/2" routers can be fitted with sleeves to allow 1/4" 6 mm, 8 mm , 12 mm, even 3/8" cutters.

1/4" routers can use 1/4" bits. end of story.

Sorry to be pedantic, but for the benefit of total beginners you should have said shanked cutters/bits.

3 years a carpenter (lol) and thats the first time I have seen "shanked" used outside of a prison knifing story. Always learning.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Just one aspect worth a mention is that plunging routers are generally safer than fixed base router if using them free hand, once you lift the router the bit goes inside the base and will not allow the router to tip over/cut if you put it down on the bench whilst its still turning.

Mike

That's a really good point

As a router 'virgin' I purchased the Katsu and I was really impressed. I then purchased this to go with it https://www.aimtools.co.uk/products/kat ... mer-101748 and the bits I'm using are these http://www.screwfix.com/p/trend-router- ... /85954#_=p

So far, so good :wink:

Obi Wan

 

[Bm101]

Hello,

You are not far from me, I could give you a demo of some routers to show you some of the variants. I haven't actually got the Trend T5 I suggested, but I did have the Elu 96 it was based on, which is why I suggested it, back in the day. I'm not suggesting I'll give a full router training course, but I could show you half a dozen routers from a Dremel in a plunge base, through a palm router, a Metabo router very similar to the Trend, through a couple of Bosch and a couple of Tritons, one in a table. I did have a Big Freud until some pipper nicked it from my car last month, but still, there is enough to be going on with.

Mike.

You won't get a better and kinder offer this year.

 

[MikeJhn]

I'v also got the Katsu, anyone else had the handles break? not comfortable to hold now, but still useable.

Mike

 

[ColeyS1]

All 1/2" routers can be fitted with sleeves to allow 1/4" 6 mm, 8 mm , 12 mm, even 3/8" cutters.

1/4" routers can use 1/4" bits. end of story.

Sorry to be pedantic, but for the benefit of total beginners you should have said shanked cutters/bits.

3 years a carpenter (lol) and thats the first time I have seen "shanked" used outside of a prison knifing story. Always learning.

I have a couple decent 1/4 inch routers and 3 1/2 routers. I usually reach for 1/4 inch routers for fairly small stuff- 2.5mm flute 6,9,10 and occasionally 12mm flute cutters. I also use it for small 45 degree champfer cuts,small round over cutters and v groove type engraving.
Any thing bigger and I'm pushing the 1/4 router to its limit. I start noticing cutter vibration and straining and it's not a pleasant experience.

That said I've got 10mm up to 30mm flute cutters in half inch shank. The half inch router is a workhorse and will just keep cutting through anything without showing any signs of struggling. It's just the size of it which makes the smaller router a more appealing choice for fiddly stuff.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[Phil Pascoe]

bosch-pof500a-router-t107242.html

 

[Eric The Viking]

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/bosch-pof500a-router-t107242.html

Have one (my first router); also have its posh friend the 600A (has variable speed). Very fond of them both and still find them very useful. Both will also take 8mm shank cutters with the extra collet.

Note that the plunge can get sticky (I have three bases - all of them do it), but it's not a show stopper. Very good quality (Swiss) motor, and spares still available from Miles Tools and others. I use a Trend "universal" auxiliary base (so they can use Trend bushes). It's a bit clunky bit it works.

Good choice if you don't want to use 1/2" cutters from the outset (I didn't). And that particular one is excellent value, more so if it's got all the accessories the original came with.

E.

PS: the design lets you do all manner of atrocious things with the setup, such as leaving the plunge springs off so it's like a fixed-base unit, rotating it in the base so you can get at the switch conveniently,mucking about with DIY fences, trammels, etc. As supplied, it clamps on only one side, but you can quickly mod it to clamp both columns (there's a brass insert, available as a spare part). I've put a tipp-ex identifier on the knob that clamps, otherwise they look identical and I get muddled!

I also used it in my home-made table for years, until I got myT11 - has no problems using 1/4" moulding cutters, etc.

 

[Pink Freud]

Ok, i know this post is a little old now but i have been trying to research the differences between the Dewalt DW625 EL -XW & the DW625 EK.

Is it just the power increase from 1850w to 2000w ? ...Marketing strategies have always seemed confusing to me #-o

 

[MikeJhn]

One has a soft start the other does not say it has so assume it has not, the one without the soft start comes with a hard carry case, same caveat applies, also one is a whole lb heavier. I assume one is a newer model. IMO if this is for table use, go with the bigger motor, if its for hand use go with the lighter weight if the power is sufficient, personally for hand use I have two Draper Expert routers, lighter, soft start, work lights, perfect for jig use.

Mike

 

[Alexam]

To be honest, I am new around here and a complete novice, so I am not really in a position to offer advice, but I did recently buy my first new router in over 20 years and so far it has worked out so I am happy to tell you about the choices I made.

I was clear I wanted a machine I could use in a table. An experienced user told me I would be better with a half rather than a quarter inch. I also wanted to be able to change bits etc from above the table rather than below. I was horrified by the cost of router lifts and did not want to muck about building my own. All this lead me to look at the Triton range. They are quite a bit cheaper than some of the big names and I was a bit suspicious, but they seemed to have a decent reputation. So I took the plunge - sorry about that - and bought one.

I am a few weeks into ownership now and I am increasingly pleased with my choice. I am finding there is a lot to get my head around in the routing world, but I am beginning to feel more confident in the kit I have. I have it working with a table mounted switch now and that helps. I have still to crack dust collection. I have one collector on the fence and have now found a tube (32mm internal) that works with the outlet from the router, but I am struggling to find a way to connect the two to my vac.

I did look at Trend - my second choice - but was scared off by some poor reviews and the extra cost.

All the best.

Hi Norm ?
Welcome to the forum and hope you enjoy it as much as I do.
Which Triton did you get?
I am also new to using a router and went for the TRA 001, which I will use in my own adapted table.

Malcolm

 

[MikeJhn]

Hi Norman as Malcolm welcome to the Forum.

This will give you the idea of how dust collection can be dealt with on a router table : http://www.axminster.co.uk/ujk-technolo ... box-502538 the clever double connector at the back of the box is available separately, but you will note its designed around a 100mm outlet, this is due to the Router being more prone to producing Chips of wood rather than dust, where a Chip extractor is more suitable, something that will move a lot of air i.e. HVLP (high volume Low pressure) rather than a vacuum cleaner which is LVHP (Low volume High pressure) which is ideal for dust producing tools i.e. sanders etc.

Chip extractors: http://www.axminster.co.uk/search/?q=Ch ... ractors&nR[visibility_search][=][0]=1&

Vacuum extractors: http://www.axminster.co.uk/search/?q=Va ... ractors&nR[visibility_search][=][0]=1&

The vacuum extractors with a 100mm inlet are a compromise and will struggle to extract from a Planer Thicknesser, but may work with a low volume producing dust/chip maker, my own Numatic similar to the NVD750 : http://www.axminster.co.uk/numatic-nvd7 ... r-ax782721 is good, but not as good on the Router Table as the FM300BC: http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-ho ... tor-501264

Hope this has been helpful.

Mike

 

[Pink Freud]

Cheers Mike, is the EL model the lighter one? ...and am i right in believing that the EK is a clone of the old Elu Mof 177 ?

 

[MikeJhn]

Google the model No and go to the DeWalt post all the weights and specifications are there, no idea if the EK is an old anything?

Mike

 

[Trakehner]

Cheers Mike, is the EL model the lighter one? ...and am i right in believing that the EK is a clone of the old Elu Mof 177 ?

The DW625 in general is the descendant of the Elu MOF177. There are a few versions of it but all come from the same parent. DeWalt bought Elu and got their patents. It is perhaps the best router overall - in terms of design, features and accessories. DeWalt fitted it with bearings that would last about a day or so. Mine came with bearings made by NSK in Poland - got shot in 3 days lighter work. I looked them up, this model had a Limiting rpm of 15, 000 where the router goes to 20, 000. I think this adjustment was fully implemented by DeWalt`s accountants. Refitting it with 20, 000rpm rated ones (only SKF have the 6005 type at 20, 000) solves it. Better but expensive - hybrid bearings, will last forever and thats what could mostly brake in these routers (DW625/T11).

Most DW625 are made either in Italy or the Czech Republic, the original ELU was made in Switzerland. The T11 afaik is made in Slovenia in the Perles factory, former Iskra. The speed control on the DW625 has conformal coating but I saw two electrolytic capacitors there - the only element besides the (I`m guessing here) triac that can fail with time. The caps on mine are Jamicon. I have used their capacitors in amplifiers I built, they`re better than the mass produced Chinese ones but don`t have a long service life. Jamicons are cheaper than proper capacitors from Nichicon, Elna, Panasonic. The use of these says about the components in the speed control, they`re poo but not that smelly. :mrgreen:

 

[Eric The Viking]

Thanks very much for posting that.

I had always thought all those routers came from the same factory (CMT, DeWalt and Trend, but I think there are other Elu clones out there).

The two advantages of the Trend T11 over the rest of the Elu clones are a good height adjustment system through the base of the router (meaning 'from above the table'), and a widened cutter hole in the base, so bigger cutters can fit through. I find both of these useful. You don't need a router lift with this design - height adjustment to an accuracy of 0.1mm is easy and fast.

There is also, for the T11, a quick release clamp system, so that the router can be quickly fitted to and removed from the table for hand use elsewhere. I have that on my router table but I don't think it is very well designed and I wouldn't recommend it - use big bolts instead!

Trakehner mentioned problems: there is one more I've had with my T11, and apparently it's fairly common. The speed control is done by a spinning magnet on the shaft of the motor, and the control circuit counts magnetic pulses. This magnet is encased in a plastic disc, and can come loose - mine did.

The symptoms are erratic speed contorl, or the motor only running at maximum (because there are no magnetic pulses being read, and the electronics think it's not turning!). The fix fairly easy. Simply to glue the disc back in the right place (I used Loctite thread-lock). There might be an issue afterwards if you need to change the bottom bearing, but it's usually the main bearing (nearest the cutter) that gets the most wear. Anyway, I didn't use epoxy glue for that reason - just in case. It's been fine for several years.

. . .

By the way, I would strongly advise against using the sort of dust extraction box mentioned earlier as an accessory for UJK router tables.

All routers need forced air cooling - air comes in at the back of the router and is forced out at the end next to the cutter. Big routers have a big airflow, and this is essential to cool the motor windings.

When used as a plunge router, it gets relatively clean air into it going into it and the exhaust air blows the dust away from the workpiece, so the user can see what's going on. Upside-down in a router table, the airflow is more of a nuisance for the user. But, if you box it in that way, the dust is sucked right past the air inlet slots on the back of the router, causing sawdust to be sucked back into the motor, possibly causing damage.

I have dismantled a router that failed because of this -- it is not an imaginary problem!

Having a big box is probably messier, but better for the router. It's also much easier for cutter changes, etc. If you can contrive clean air getting to the bottom of the router, and extraction from right under the table, that would be better still.

Have a look at Steve Maskery's table modification, specifically to deal with the problem of cutting slots and dados, when the dust can't escape above the table. It's a simple, elegant idea that works well.

Cheers, E.

 

[custard]

By the way, I would strongly advise against using the sort of dust extraction box mentioned earlier as an accessory for UJK router tables.

All routers need forced air cooling - air comes in at the back of the router and is forced out at the end next to the cutter. Big routers have a big airflow, and this is essential to cool the motor windings.

When used as a plunge router, it gets relatively clean air into it going into it and the exhaust air blows the dust away from the workpiece, so the user can see what's going on. Upside-down in a router table, the airflow is more of a nuisance for the user. But, if you box it in that way, the dust is sucked right past the air inlet slots on the back of the router, causing sawdust to be sucked back into the motor, possibly causing damage.

I have dismantled a router that failed because of this -- it is not an imaginary problem!

Excellent point.

 

[MikeJhn]

That's why the UJK router box has an adjustable air inlet on the left hand side of the box, with sufficient extract (I have 2000m3/hr) the dust is forced past the router and into the outlet, fresh air being sucked into the box, the majority of the chips are above the table and with the correct insert and fence positioning nearly all of the chips are sucked through the fence outlet port, in reality the problem does not exist on a properly designed system, my own Hitachi in a UJK dust box never, essentially needs cleaning, even though I do vacuum it when cleaning up, in fact my hand held routers need cleaning more often where forced air is not being drawn past the motor body.

The only router I have ever had to change bearings on was a Triton used in a Triton table without a box, this also is not imaginary.

Mike

 

[Eric The Viking]

I'm glad the UJK box has an inlet port (I looked for a manual on Axminster's web page and couldn't see any document links). But have you looked inside your Hitachi router, to see if crud is accumulating?

The bearings aren't the issue here, unless they are really cheap ones and insufficiently sealed. Dust passing through the router will, however, cause clogging, overheating, and various other things that become failure modes, depending on router design.

It entirely depends what you using the router table for. With slotting and dadoing, pretty much all the waste ends up below the table.

I can't find Steve's write-up of cutting a DX port in the plate of his router table, for dealing with this, only his mods to his "Mk2" version, but the idea is very similar.

Of course, if you are using the cutter "embedded" in the fence, then you can easily extract from on top, and most of your problem goes away. But sucking dust through the cutter aperture into a box surrounding the router can only make matters worse, unless the airflow is very carefully arranged. And if you do the latter, it gets in the way of access to the router for cutter changing, and/or impedes the height movement.

E.

BTW, I did find a thread from 2004 discussing this, which I hadn't previously read, so the problem isn't new. Norm's table design, and Bill Hylton's both put the router in a small chamber, with DX from the very bottom. I'm not at all convinced this is a good idea, unmodified.

 

[MikeJhn]

Eric you have assumed that dust passes through the Router, IMO it does not, the amount of air movement within the box is far greater than if not in a box, it is my premise therefore that any dust brought below the table top through the insert is picked up by the air movement and sucked out of the box, this is evident by the lack of dust in the box at the end of any cutting session and the cleanliness of the router body.

Slotting is not a problem as the bit will throw the cut material to the right hand side of the slot and into the fence outlet, however if habitually cutting dado's I would agree that unless a outlet port was cut in the insert plate, chips and dust would tend to accumulate in the slot and eventually be sucked down below the table top, Incra have thought of this and have the Magna lock cleansweep ring inserts for their table: https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/produ ... et-6-piece ,if the lower area of the table was being supplied with sufficient air movement/extract, these lightweight chips and dust would and indeed are sucked away from the router body.

I do however agree that having the extract at the bottom of any box is a bad idea and would indeed suck debris into the router, this would in fact force any detritus to pass the routers main air inlet and would inevitably cause an accumulation of debris internally, IMO the ideal position for the main outlet would be above the bottom of the box on the right hand side of the router, ideally in line with the base plate, the UJK dust box, although not perfect goes a long way towards that sort of design.

On occasions when I have forgotten to turn on the extract, the debris in the router box has always been on the right hand side at the back of the box, very little dust is evident, it is mostly large chips, this is evidenced by the vortex effect of the spinning router bit throwing most of the dust into the fence outlet, this is all using the router table conventionally with a fence and not plunge cutting a panel which would have the same problems as cutting a dado.

You can see the adjustable air inlet on the left hand side of the router box in the pic below, but before you mention the dust on the table, I had not used it that day, but had been using the chop saw, this was before I modified the dust port on the chop saw to an acceptable standard.

Cutter changing and height adjustment are both carried out above the table.

Mike