Just bought a Viceroy TDS6 short bed

[Farmer Giles]

That colchester is a beauty! Jammy so n so!

I was at the right place at the right time, a work colleague mentioned there was a lathe in the warehouse, so I went and took a look, enquired and found that they had consolidated two building maintenance workshops and only needed one lathe and as it had a gearbox issues it was being scrapped. So instead of a dealer getting it for scrap value, I paid the same price but the dosh went to a local hospice came with a brand new 3 jaw church, 4 jaw, faceplate and fixed steady

 

[Farmer Giles]

I've picked up the lathe and given it a quick rub down and a quick test. There is a large aluminium faceplate and smaller cast "faceplate" for the outboard LH thread but nothing for the inboard -yet

The single phase motor works fine and even with link belts it sounds quiet enough, The motor is wired direct to the plug, not via the switch on the front, I'm guessing the switch maybe an early 3 phase NVR switch given this come out of a school and the lathe was converted to single phase later but I could be wrong, no big deal either way, I'll check that out later when I get some time and wire it correctly.

The tailstock swivels and can be locked in place with a allen grub screw so that's not a concern so in all not bad. I have seen slightly cheaper but they are usually in Cornwall or North Scotland. At some point it will get a pray job, and although I like to keep machines as they were originally painted, I hate hammerite with a passion so it may have to go!.

Cheers
Andy

 

[Farmer Giles]

I had a quick look at the switch, it is single phase and think I can see why they wired it direct. This is the switch

This is the back, the red wire should be top right, with this set up as wired you can turn the lathe on, but not off. I had a quick check with the meter and it seems to work contact wise but I won't know if the latching mechanism works until there is power to it. The left hand "on" switch is normally open, and the right hand "off" switch normally closed, if you press the on switch, the current going through the switch should activate the latching mechanism, pressing the off switch break the circuit so the latching mechanism releases the on switch back to normally open. (Incorrect -see edit below)

If it is broken then I will do what I did with my Tom Senior milling machine switch gear. The below was completely broken internally so as I was changing to a VFD, I replaced the innards with a modern NVR switch but the old buttons operate it. I also added the chicken head knob to allow speed control. A new NVR switch would have looked wrong on a 1950's machine.

Tea break over, back to work, it will have to wait until next weekend now

EDIT - the latching mechanism isn't in the above switch, there's more gubbins in the back that I have just uncovered, I thought the switch was a bit small for it's day to be a self contained NVR switch, it is purely a remote controller for the gubbins below, I shall have to look at it in more detail now.

It is looking more likely that I will fit a modern NVR switch to the back of the on/off switch and bypass the existing gubbins unless I can get a decent diagram for it.

EDIT number 2 - found a wiring diagram on the Denford forum

Cheers
Andy

 

[Farmer Giles]

Here's the wiring diagram for the Denford Viceroy TD6

a higher resolution PDF is available on the Denford forum, it is bundled in a PDF of the wiring of many Denford machines so took a while to dig out. All looks self explanatory, it can work single or three phase and apart from the 96* terminal which I think maybe the neon on the Danfoss contactor, is relatively easy to understand. As they have wired direct to the motor, the lathe isn't properly earthed. I'll rewire it correctly and see if the contactor still works, if not I'll replace it with a modern NVR hidden behind the existing switch.

I think it was probably three phase to begin with, and they probably didn't have a diagram to chenge it to single phase, or the contactor broke so they wired it direct.

 

[graduate_owner]

FLH,
I have tried what you suggested, and with the half nut lever engaged I can turn the hand wheel on the apron enough to move the carriage about 10mm, so I guess that is causing the loss of sync, but I don't know what to do about it. There is also about 1mm slack in the lead screw, but when I tried taking this up by tightening the castellated type nuts ( C spanner type) where it comes from the gearbox, the whole thing was too tight to turn, so I put it back as it was.
Does this mean I need to dismantle the apron etc again?

K

 

[flh801978]

K
Engage the half nut lever and then remove it and replace a few teeth clockwise (if its a gap bed one AC if not ) and fasten re-engage further see if that engages the half nut further into mesh
10mm is far too much to travel..mine is locked solid when engaged
Ian

 

[flh801978]

You can adjust slack at the tailstock end with the collar too

 

[graduate_owner]

Thanks Ian, I will try that.

K

Just tried it, no further engagement of the lever so it looks like off with the saddle. I am not looking forward to it. Have you ever done this? Any hints?
Also, how can I adjust the slack on the lead screw from the tailstock end? There doesn't seem to be any adjustment there. The lathe is a gap bed, if that makes any difference.

K

 

[flh801978]

Yes I've done a few times on both gap and Normal beds
You need to take the top off the gearbox and undo the nut holding the lead screw in then that withdraws remove the drive shaft as well and then the apron will come away from the saddle and then you can see whats wrong with the half nut area
When withdrawing lead screw be careful of gears and spacers take photos and make notes

 

[graduate_owner]

Thanks, here goes then.

K

 

[Farmer Giles]

Sorry I can't help on the lead screw, I haven't had to touch mine - yet.

Back to the Viceroy. I had a quick look at converting the existing switch panel to an NVR, the idea is you use the existing buttons to actuate a modern NVR hidden behind it, Here's a pick showing a couple of bits of dowel used to extend the button action to the new NVR.

Then mate them up, by fixing them together, but before I do that, I have to make sure that there is enough depth in the machine to take the NVR. Tottal depth is about 80mm for 15mm either side of the centre line.

So measure the cavity, not deep enough, especially once the wires are on the back, they would catch on the pulley. It may just squeak in as the largest pulley is on the left but less than ideal having wiring near a moving belt.

If I packed it out with a space then maybe but I think I will see if the original denford switch gear is still in good nick so will try and reuse the Danfoss contactor. Plan C is just to use the new NVR on a plate and forget about keeping the look original.

Cheers
Andy

 

[Farmer Giles]

Anybody have an idea of what the flat tool rest type of thing is in this photo of a viceroy?

Cheers
Andy

 

[graduate_owner]

Could it be some sort of sanding table? No idea what all those screws are for though.

The tailstock doesn't look all that substantial, but no doubt it is fit for purpose. I suppose it is to save space. On my full length bed viceroy the tailstock is quite a chunk.


I do hope you will be removing that chuck key before you switch on !!!

K

 

[Farmer Giles]

I do hope you will be removing that chuck key before you switch on !!!

I would but it's not my lathe, I just wondered what the thingamabob was

 

[deema]

Your lathe has a contractor with an overload current relay piggy backed to it. This is what you find in an industrial NVR, and is far better than the simple NVR latch you highlighted. The overcurrent relay will provide protection for the motor. You simply set it at the maximum running current.

The contractor and the existing switches will work as you desire.....assuming the contractor is working! Plenty of stuff on how to wire them up.

 

[Farmer Giles]

Looking at lathes.co.uk, the only clue I have on the weird rest is this excerpt

"The options were limited but all models were available with a rack-operated saddle and compound slide rest was to concert the machine to light-duty metal turning."

So maybe it is one of them?

 

[Farmer Giles]

Your lathe has a contractor with an overload current relay piggy backed to it. This is what you find in an industrial NVR, and is far better than the simple NVR latch you highlighted. The overcurrent relay will provide protection for the motor. You simply set it at the maximum running current.

The contractor and the existing switches will work as you desire.....assuming the contractor is working! Plenty of stuff on how to wire them up.

Thanks Deema, I have the diagram and will get around to wiring it in soon, either the previous owner didn't have the diagram or skill to rewire to single phase or the contactor is FUBAR, we will soon find out

 

[Farmer Giles]

I hoisted the lathe out of the barn and up into the workshop, took longer than expected, typically a mate turned up just as I finished, it is much quicker with two.

I had a fleeting attempt at wiring in the old contactor but the denford lathe diagram seems to have a few mistakes or omissions and pin-out diagrams for these old contactors seem to be elusive. Also the diagram could refer to a different contactor model as it doesn't specify the exact model. The good news is if didn't go bang or let out any smoke. I think I have a wire missing and I think I know where so a friend who is an industrial sparky is coming around on Thursday to offer his opinion, I think we will end up putting a more recent contactor in there with known pin-outs.

All the wiring was removed before and the motor driven direct from a plug, I have replaced all the wiring, neatly clipped in place so it shouldn't be difficult to connect it up given the correct diagram and documeted contactor

I have also podded out on a Sorby Patriot chuck with the correct thread, I need to get a live centre etc. for the tailstock and some turning tools. This Sorby set looks good for the cash, or should I just buy the odd old tool etc?

Cheers
Andy

 

[Phil Pascoe]

That's a good, balanced set - there isn't anything there you won't use, and the sizes are fine for most people's usage.

 

[Farmer Giles]

Thanks Phil

Chisels purchased, I should be turning soon.

Interestingly the taper on the Viceroy's tailstock is MT3, I thought it would be MT2 or even MT1 like most wood lathe tooling, no bother, I have sleeve reducers for MT3 to MT2 and MT1. There is no release mechanism when you wind the tailstock fully in like most metal lathes, it's a drift and mallet job

Cheers
Andy