Table refinishing questions

[No skills]

I've finally ordered a new 6" sander (Bosch dual mode). One upcoming task is the refinishing of our dining table.
It's "Indian rosewood", the tops about an inch thick so I have some material to play with

It's currently wearing some sort of gloss varnish which looked nice but is now scratched to twittery and the top has dings and even a tracksaw kerf to sort out. I'd like to have a gloss finish again or at least semi gloss.

So the first questions are what finish? A new varnish or some sort of oil?

It needs to be reasonably hard wearing, and I also need to be able to apply the finish insitu (dining room!) so no dragging it off to a spray booth for 2k lacquer

Also i was only going to finish the top itself not the legs/substructure.

Any thoughts folks?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

If it's Indian rosewood it won't be a millimetre thick let alone an inch.

 

[yetloh]

You need to have a close look at the underside to make sure it is in fact solid wood as you think. This can be confirmed by looking at the end grain which should make it obvious whether it is indeed veneered. If it is solid wood, I would consider shellac. You dont need french polishing skills because you can achieve a good high gloss finish by cutting back and burnishing. Shellac is often thought to be delicate but is surprising tough as long as you don't leave it wet and is easily repaired, unlike many modern finishes.

Jim

 

[No skills]

Folks it's very definitely solid.. I have a 2mm deep track saw gouge in the top that I need to sort out and it's solid all the way, admittedly the legs are made up of laminations and the edges of the top have a piece glued around them to make the top appear thicker than it really is (it's pretending to be 2" thick like the show room one was) - there's plenty of end grain on show..

 

[Sgian Dubh]

You're more likely to be better off stripping chemically rather than with a sander. Colron is one brand that supplies a stripper that will take off most finishes - there are other makers and suppliers. The main advantage of this kind of stripping is that it doesn't change the existing colour or patina of the wood very much, or even at all in 98% of cases. Sanding will expose new wood, which will in all probability have a quite different appearance to the underframe, an item you're not planning to redo.

A durable finish would be an oil varnish, which can be applied with just a brush, or thinned and ragged on. A disadvantage, of course, is slow drying if brushed on, leaving the surface likely to attract dust and other contaminants during the first few hours of curing. You may prefer other finishes that are easier to apply, e.g., and oil based finish, but these are generally less resistant to moisture, spilled liquids, and wear, but easier to repair than the varnish I suggested as one candidate. It's always swings and roundabouts with finishes. Slainte.

 

[ED65]

If you want/need heat and water resistance then traditionally you want varnish at least, although some of the new oil/wax finishes are pretty durable by all accounts.

Varnish doesn't have to be scary, it is easily applied to a very high standard by thinning and wiping on. Each layer dries faster than if you were brushing it on conventionally because the layer is much thinner, so problems with dust are minimised. And nearly best for me, no cleaning out of a brush afterwards! I've always hated that job.

 

[No skills]

Thank you for the help so far.

An interesting point about the change in appearance in the timber once I start to sand it, I don't think there's any way around some sanding or material removal of some sort as there's damage to the timber not just the finish that's sat on top unfortunately.

I think a varnish thinned and wiped on is the best finish for this particular job, can anyone recommend a good varnish and thinner please?

Also once the top has been stripped and repaired (probably with liquid hide glue and sawdust to the worst spot) how far up the grits should I be working before I start applying varnish?

Cheers

 

[yetloh]

I have achieved a very saisfactory result using an oil based polyurethane varnish (can't remember which one) diluted with 40% white spirit, wiped on with a cloth. About five or six coats, the last applied with 400 grit wet and dry and then wiped off. I last did it on a small oak chest of drawers more than ten years ag and it still looks as good as when first done.

Jim

 

[ED65]

I think a varnish thinned and wiped on is the best finish for this particular job, can anyone recommend a good varnish and thinner please?

Oil-based varnish. Polyurethane specifically if you want good scratch resistance.

Thinner for any and all oil-based varnish would be white spirits naturally, although you can use turpentine if you prefer.

Also once the top has been stripped and repaired (probably with liquid hide glue and sawdust to the worst spot) how far up the grits should I be working before I start applying varnish?

Common advice these days is that anything higher than 180-240 is a waste of time if you're varnishing as making the wood any smoother can't be felt or seen once the finish goes on. For some species you can stop as low as 150.

If you're using an ROS complete your sanding by hand at the same grit, using a block and sanding with the grain.

 

[custard]

Folks it's very definitely solid.

Very likely, every chance it's "sheesham" furniture. It's a genuine member of the rosewood family, just not one of the highly prized "dalbergias". India is pretty canny managing it's timber stocks, they only export veneers or "machined" rosewood items (that's why if you buy rosewood boards in a timber yard it will almost certainly have a small moulding worked into one corner, enabling it to be exported as "finished, machined skirting board" or some such nonsense description. They also have managed plantations of fast growing sissoo rosewood, which is what you've probably got, and use it to churn out loads of rosewood furniture for export. If I'm wrong by the way and you've got an older piece made from a superior rosewood (you'll know straight away because of the very dark, dense almost black colour streaked through with red and purple lustrous tones, and any sap visible on the underside will be very narrow and a bright pale yellowy/white colour) then it's too valuable to mess around with.

One issue you'll find with sheesham or sissoo is that not only is the timber naturally very oily, but that it's not uniformly oily, there'll be drier patches and oilier patches. That can give you all sorts of finishing headaches, and even if you wipe the surface with meths or acetone the internal oils will bleed back to the surface over time, lifting any finish above them. I'd take the safe route and stick to an oil finish. It's a fairly tough and stain resistant timber so can withstand a lot of abuse and doesn't really need a highly protective finish.

 

[No skills]

Yes folks it's sheesham, badly made - chavvy, but I kinda like it :lol:
The grain on the top pieces is imo excellent and with a gloss finish looks great.

Right.. Oil finish is tempting for ease of application but I think a poly varnish is my choice.
Multiple thin coats of finish.
Sand top up to 240 ish.
I have to get used to this new sander before I get stuck into this and find a decient brand of 150mm discs to use on it, the flexovit I have aren't great and I'll use them up on something else first.

I assume I should give a very light sand between varnish coats, what grit for that?
Any other words of wisdom from you very helpful folk?

 

[yetloh]

In my opinion, Abranet is very hard to beat. I would suggest 400 grit between coats, no need for a mchine, hand sanding is all you need.

Jim

 

[ED65]

I assume I should give a very light sand between varnish coats, what grit for that?
Any other words of wisdom from you very helpful folk?

If you're wiping finish on frequently you won't need to sand between coats. Depends on your dust situation though! Also how much of the varnish you leave in place after wiping it on, since you can leave it, wipe away a bit or wipe all excess off as you would with an oil.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

Right.. Oil finish is tempting for ease of application but I think a poly varnish is my choice.
Multiple thin coats of finish.

Are you sure? Custard is right about the oily nature of this wood giving problems to film forming finishes like poly varnish. Sometimes it prevents them from curing and even if they do eventually 'dry' can remain soft and not completely bonded to the surface. If you are adamant about using poly, then seriously consider a couple of thin coats of de-waxed shellac as a sealer/isolator prior to the poly. Pay particular attention to it being de-waxed, as poly does not like wax either! A good penetrating oil could save a whole lot of messing.

Mike.

 

[No skills]

Thank you all for the help.

I'm going to try a poly finish, if it fails I'll take it off and do something else. People less fortunate than me managed to spray a coat of something on it previously and it didn't fall off so I'll take a chance