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monkeybiter
Woodworker


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
Posts: 114
Location: doncaster

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:50 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm a member of another forum on an unrelated subject which is populated in the majority by north Americans and moderated chiefly by an Englishman. There is a wealth of technical knowledge and experience but a severe dearth of good manners and general friendliness. Insults, racism and bigotry are quite common, even from the mod. It's lively and useful but not nice to visit.
I am a newbie to this forum but have been astounded by the welcome I was given, and the consistently friendly and good natured posts between all the regular contributors. Even though I'm short of time to make, I seem to find time to visit the forum every day.
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big soft moose
Master Cabinetmaker


Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 4495

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:52 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

and if you say anything contentious preface it with IMO (in my opinion) so you arent stating it as a fact - in my view the biggest reason for fallings out is people seeming to state that only their way/ view/opinion/ whatever is valid wheras in fact there are many different ways to approach nearly any task or argument.
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cornucopia
Cabinetmaker


Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 1568
Location: Leicestershire

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:38 am Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm also backing off from this forum- i cant belive how much its changed since i joined
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woodbloke
Master Cabinetmaker


Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 8952
Location: Salisbury,UK...counting down the pay cheques...20, or it might be 19

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:38 am Post subject: Reply with quote

big soft moose wrote:
and if you say anything contentious preface it with IMO (in my opinion) so you arent stating it as a fact - in my view the biggest reason for fallings out is people seeming to state that only their way/ view/opinion/ whatever is valid wheras in fact there are many different ways to approach nearly any task or argument.

As has been said many times, t'interweb is a strange place regarding just how the meaning of dialogue in conveyed. As BSM correctly says there are plenty of ways to 'skin a cat' and not just the one definitive method, so the inclusion of 'IMO' should always be used to indicate that it's a personal viewpoint.
This was one of the irritating things about a certain cricketer who's just left the forum. The individual concerned was a goldmine of sound information but his forthright opinions on some handtools occasionally (not always) made me 'hackle' Notwithstanding that though, the forum is poorer for his loss...IMHO Wink - Rob
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Karl
Master Cabinetmaker


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 2268
Location: Cheshire

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:56 am Post subject: Reply with quote

woodbloke wrote:
so the inclusion of 'IMO' should always be used to indicate that it's a personal viewpoint.


But surely the fact that the poster has typed it shows that it is just his/her opinion. Don't Know

If I say "The best way to sharpen plane blades is using an eclipse type jig, a trend double sided diamond stone and some honing compound rubbed onto a scrap of MDF", then that is clearly My Opinion. I don't see why we need to earmark it as such.

Perhaps we should end all posts with "other methods are available" Laughing

Cheers

Karl
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woodbloke
Master Cabinetmaker


Joined: 13 Apr 2006
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Location: Salisbury,UK...counting down the pay cheques...20, or it might be 19

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:25 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Karl wrote:
woodbloke wrote:
so the inclusion of 'IMO' should always be used to indicate that it's a personal viewpoint.


But surely the fact that the poster has typed it shows that it is just his/her opinion. Don't Know

If I say "The best way to sharpen plane blades is using an eclipse type jig, a trend double sided diamond stone and some honing compound rubbed onto a scrap of MDF", then that is clearly My Opinion. I don't see why we need to earmark it as such.

Perhaps we should end all posts with "other methods are available" Laughing

Cheers

Karl

Karl...this is what makes it so difficult and why we need to be so careful. In context look at your statement again as a third party reading it.

"The best way to sharpen plane blades is using an eclipse type jig, a trend double sided diamond stone and some honing compound rubbed onto a scrap of MDF"

This now becomes a statement of fact, n'est pas?

I could equally write..."Excalibur saws are rubbish because...etc etc" (hackles rising? Laughing )

It is my opinion sure, but it's been expressed as a statement of fact and therein lies a lot of the problem. (Ex saws are good btw Wink ) I know that it's a chore to word responses using 'in my view' or 'IMO' but I think if it were used more, many of the nuances that we try to explain would be a lot clearer - Rob
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Harbo
Cabinetmaker


Joined: 13 Nov 2006
Posts: 1849
Location: Hampshire

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:45 am Post subject: Reply with quote

IMHO I take all posts as such - unless the poster is making it clear it is from another source.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinions but they should express it such that it does not offend other people reading them.

Many posts which are supposed to be witty or jokes do not always come across as such - the use of emoticons can help there?

My policy is to try to ignore the threads which are "going down hill" and certainly ones where certain people are involved - IMHO they seem to enjoy making trouble? Smile

And never ever loose your temper - you only come across the worse?

Rod
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Philly
Master Cabinetmaker


Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Posts: 6831
Location: Dorset, England.

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:47 am Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a toughy - all I can say is before you post take a deep breath and read what you've typed. If you have any doubts about posting it - don't. Come back to it later and see how you feel - the instant you take offence and retaliate we end up with some of the threads you have seen on the forum lately.
It all comes down to this - if you don't add fuel to the fire it will fizzle out.

It's not always easy being the bigger man (or woman) but its the only way to keep the forum on the straight and narrow - additional rules will only confuse things and banning "idiots" doesn't help because they love winding good folk up.

Only my thoughts...
Philly Very Happy
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Karl
Master Cabinetmaker


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
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Location: Cheshire

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:54 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob - if I ended my "quote" with "and anybody using any other method is a to$$er", then i'd agree.

Like you say, it is the remoteness of an internet forum which is the prime problem.

Xcaliburs fine, BTW. How's the Kity? Laughing

Cheers

Karl
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woodbloke
Master Cabinetmaker


Joined: 13 Apr 2006
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Location: Salisbury,UK...counting down the pay cheques...20, or it might be 19

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:08 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Karl wrote:

Xcaliburs fine, BTW. How's the Kity? Laughing

Cheers

Karl

Sold...being collected Sat by MickCheese. Reading about your new 'toy' with interest...looks a beast Shocked - Rob
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Karl
Master Cabinetmaker


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 2268
Location: Cheshire

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:12 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Scares the living daylights out of me every time I fire it up!
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woodbloke
Master Cabinetmaker


Joined: 13 Apr 2006
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Location: Salisbury,UK...counting down the pay cheques...20, or it might be 19

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:13 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Karl wrote:
Scares the living daylights out of me every time I fire it up!


Laughing Laughing

The scariest saw I ever used was when I did my elfn'saftey training course on wood machines (mandatory as a D&T teacher) using a 20" Wadkin rip...scared nine shades of rubbish out of me just to look at it! - Rob
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kasandrich
Furniture Maker


Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 293
Location: Braintree Essex UK

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:53 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not been around this forum for long, but I have been around others for a very long time and even ran one for a couple of years. What I have learned from my experience is, I think (IMO Very Happy ) we would all do well to realise, that we should "never attribute to malice anything which can be attributed to ignorance", thats something my Dad taught me and it serves me well in life in general.

What that means is that if someone has upset you, it is more likely to be accidental than on purpose, give them the benifit of doubt, this is good for harmony.

Also in my experience, if you have a real trouble maker, and that is often identifiable by turning to abuse/threats in PMs rather than on the open forum, then that person is best dealt with quickly and firmly by moderators, otherwise it just turns into bickering.

All of the above is just my opinion, of my experiences, does not constitute the opinion of anyone else and is not the only opinion available. Laughing Laughing
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studders
Master Furnituremaker


Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 1227
Location: In a Land Far Far Away

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:12 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

kasandrich wrote:


What that means is that if someone has upset you, it is more likely to be accidental than on purpose, give them the benifit of doubt, this is good for harmony.



In the vast majority of cases, and esp on here, that is true. But.. there are, and have been the exceptions.
Some people delight in subtly, or not so subtly, winding up others, even going as far as targeting them, deliberately choosing to misinterpret what they say and doing their best to provoke a reaction.
Others have a beef with someone and snipe wherever possible, again to provoke a reaction.
In such situations it becomes almost impossible not to say something; at which point the provoker will act all aggrieved and claim to be the one whose been wronged, usually 'backed up' by a minority, with their own blunt axes, 'supporting' them.
It's easy to say ignore them, not so easy to do.
And yes, I am well aware that for some, maybe many, I fall into their category of 'troublemaker' because I can't ignore the 'snipers' and 'point scorers'; and why should I? Forum Harmony? How about some of those people claiming to want harmony seeing some posters for what they are rather than blindly backing them up?

Here (maybe) endeth the rant.
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big soft moose
Master Cabinetmaker


Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 4495

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:26 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Karl wrote:
Rob - if I ended my "quote" with "and anybody using any other method is a to$$er", then i'd agree.


thing is a few posters - and i'm not saying that you are one of them, manage to imply that via their attitude and unwillingness to consider any other view point
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