Door Locks

[Dibs-h]

I'm looking into getting some mortice locks for the new workshop door - and had sort of settled on a Chubb 3G110 - which is a high security version of their normal locks. But looking around today seem to be coming across locks that are referred to as Eurospec - Google = zero.

Anyone shed any light on what a Eurospec lock is?

Also considering the Chubbs are around £75 each - is it really worth getting one - admittedly the locks on the house doors are all Chubbs - or just get one that is BS whatever (v2007 I think) compliant? Ones by Era for example are 1/3 of the price.

(It's not like Johnny asbo is going to know a Banham from a Chubb - Professional burglars might.)

[Dibs-h]

Just done a bit of Googling and there is a well known website that hosts videos and the nbr of videos that show 5 lever deadlocks (apparently BS) picked in <30 with what look like home made implements in some cases is rather eye opening.

I think I might have to give the Era locks a miss and start looking at far more secure ones.

[TrimTheKing]

Look on that website for 'bump keys' for your own lock type. Frightening!

The locks on my house are all some of the most advanced out there (according to the security company we had out to survey the security system when we bought the house). That video site shows one of my locks being opened inside 5 secs with a bump key!!!

[Dibs-h]

[TrimTheKing]

Cool, will have a look at that, cheers.

Suppose the option if they're not insurance approved is to have dual locks on your house, one which is approved and then the actual safe one

[Mike.C]

Dib's have you ever considered biometric (fingerprint and iris) or electronic locks? The cost has come right down and all of them can be wired into your house alarm, which means if you have an alarm such as ADT a signal can be sent to them and the police called before the thief even knows he has been sussed. On top of that a hidden camera can also take a picture of the scumbag which is shown in the offices of your alarm company.

If this is all to much hassle, a simple iris scan can be had for a couple of hundred pounds. The good thing about most of these locks are there is no visible lock to pick.

Primus locks are suppose to be good. Some say unpickable and unbumpable, and where I do not necessarily believe that, they have got a good name.

Cheers

Mike
_________________
If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men.

St. Francis of Assisi

[Setch]

How much do you want to spend?

Ignore the videos of people picking mortice locks - these are either lock sport enthusiasts who have invested shed loads of time in refining their skills to do this (no thief is going to have the dedication or intellect to do the same) or people who have deliberately staged the video to either impress their internet freinds, or try to sell their products. Realistically, no criminal is going to be picking a curtained mortice lock.

The Chubb 3G110 is a very cool lock, but not BS:3621 approved, and extremely expensive. You would be better off buying a 3G114E, which is half the price, BS: 3621 rated, and was highly placed in the Which consumer test of mortice locks a few years back, IIRC it came in second to the Union 2134E, which is also a good choice, and is also sold under the Chubb brand as the 3U114E (again, IIRC). The Era Fortress locks are widely acknowledged as being difficult to pick by anyone who actually knows their stuff, and I would happily have one on my door. I repeat my point about the videos being either staged, or the result of years of dedicated practice, hours of specific practice to each different make and model of lock, and often, hundreds of pounds of specialised tools.

Whilst bump keys are a genuine issue, and there are videos of everything under the sun being bumped, this is a moot point if you have a wooden door with a lever mortice lock fitted to it. You'll also find a lot of videos posted by people selling bump keys... do your own working to find the connection! Kaba locks are excellent, but the choice of cylinder is not the defining characteristic of the lock - it's what the cylinder opperates when it is turned. I have seen kaba cylinders fitted to 30 year old night latches which can be opened in 5 seconds with some flexible plastic.

You are vanishingly unlikely to be targetted by somebody who will try to pick their way into your workshop, but quite likely to be the target of forced entry. You are on the right track with your (awesome!) door, extend this to the frame, and it's connection to the walls, and you'll be fine with whatever BS:3621 deadlocks you pick. I'd favour the Era Fortress as best value for money, but the Chubb just strikes me as better quality, and easier to fit.

For the record, I have been working as a locksmith for the last three and a half years, and have had to open and install most of the locks discussed, so I'm not just speaking out of my proverbial

**Edit**

Eurospec is a lock manufacturer, they make their products in the far east, and are widely used on new builds and developments because they are inexpensive and experienced in suppliying large contractors, architects etc. They're for the most part a bit cheap and cheerful, though not rubbish.

[big soft moose]

we do need to keeep a sense of perspective tho - its a workshop not a nuclear weapons storage facility - the trouble with instally the really hi tech kit is that

a) it might stop little johnny scrote picking the lock , but it also comunicates to the proffesional that there must be valuables within worth that level of security - and you can't ever keep the pros out

and b) there is more to go wrong and keep you out by accident

personally i'd reckon that if you've got two chubbs top and bottom, and outward opening door with protected hinges, and an alarm panel withg klaxon and smoak cloak inside then thats good enough to keep the local low lifes out and to convince the insurers that you took "reasonable precautions" if you get done by someone who can defeat all of the above.
_________________
money talks, and thats no lie
I heard it once, it said goodbye !

[Setch]

Exactly what Moose said - it's common sense, not high security that's called for.

IMO biometrics, Iris, Fprint etc are an unknown quantity, and too new for me to put any faith in. I've heard of both being spoofed with printed images of eyes or fingerprints, and am not anware of any which is insurance approved or BS rated.

[Mike.C]

[Dibs-h]

Mike - Cheers, whilst Hi-Tech is good, a lot of them seem to be reliant on Euro cylinders- which seem a bit pants. I'm much more a fan of cm's of hardened steel than electronics.

Setch - Whilst I still want to buy a 911 at some point in life, preferably whilst petrol is affordable - I also don't want to skimp. We already have 3G110's in external doors in the house, so aren't massively bothered as I've don't pay retail for most stuff (barring groceries, etc.)

The reason I was going for the 3G110 is that it's a detainer version and from chats with a few locksmiths a far more secure lock than the 3G114's. The only reason it isn't BS:3621 is that the bolt throw isn't a min of 20mm. In all other aspects I'm told the lock exceeds BS:3621. And since there isn't going to be any striker plates in the jamb - I'm not terribly fussed.

The cylinder lock I was thinking of was Chubb 4L67 or an Ingersoll SC71.

I appreciate most of the videos are from "sports enthusiasts" - but some of the tools are also readily available from the old tinternet, and it is a matter of time before such knowledge and in some cases rudimentary tools make their way to scumbags. Euro cylinders have been around for yrs and it's in the last several yrs that it's become common knowledge of how to snap them. As I said I suspect it will be similar for the rest - especially given the recession - look at bumping. If you underspec security on the assumption that the knowledge isn't widely circulated - it's not if, it's when you get done over.

BSM - yes it's a workshop and not a nuclear bunker - but even if my locks cost me £500 for the door, that's peanuts compared to the cost of the build\equipment going in and I'm confident that Johnny Scrote (or even Johnny Pro to be honest) isn't going to get in without a sheer fight on his hands.

Whilst at the same time - no outward appearance that the place contains anything worth stealing, nor of the security built in.

As for the insurers - most domestic policies don't pay anything over 1k for valuables in an outbuilding. So might as well work on that assumption. As for shopping round for quotes - due to the specifics of the property, most online quote engines konk out and display a message along the lines of "unable to quote please ring xxxxxxx" - usually due to the nbr of bedrooms.

Edit: p.s. Setch can you pick a 3G110 assuming you had a decoder and how long would it take? Or would you try and drill it?

[Mike.C]

Dib's wrote,

Mike - Cheers, whilst Hi-Tech is good, a lot of them seem to be reliant on Euro cylinders- which seem a bit pants. I'm much more a fan of cm's of hardened steel than electronics.

You obviously know a lot more about them then I do, so stear well clear of my above advice. My only thought about finger print technology was because our bank is starting to use it for our safe deposit box:lol:

Dib's wrote.

BSM - yes it's a workshop and not a nuclear bunker - but even if my locks cost me £500 for the door, that's peanuts compared to the cost of the build\equipment going in and I'm confident that Johnny Scrote (or even Johnny Pro to be honest) isn't going to get in without a sheer fight on his hands.

Whilst at the same time - no outward appearance that the place contains anything worth stealing, nor of the security built in.

I agree, If you are spending many thousands on the contents of your workshop, why skimp when it comes to its protection. £500 is nothing to what most of us have spent on our hobbies, and you certainly cannot rely on the insurance companies to cough up for everything:wink:

Good luck and lets hope you never need to claim.

Cheers

Mike
_________________
If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men.

St. Francis of Assisi

[big soft moose]

[Mike.C]

[Dibs-h]