Cheap planes

JohnBrown · Woodworker Joined: 15 Sep 2007 Posts: 93 Location: Surrey

Hi,
My local hardware store has this on sale for £19.99, what do you think? Is it worth buying or will it be a piece of cr@p?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Faithfull-No-4-Plane-No-60-1/dp/B0001IWSL0/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=diy&qid=1257440451&sr=1-6

Smudger · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:05 pm Post subject:

Probably worth it for the handles.
Some people say they have tuned them to be usable, most say it isn't worth the effort.
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woodbloke · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:15 pm Post subject:

What night is tonight?.. Think

...Bonfire night! - Rob
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JoinerySolutions · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:17 pm Post subject:

The time and effort taken for the presentation box should have been invested in at least one of the planes! Just my opinion but then the last brand new plane I bought from Stanley took several hours of fettling to get it right and that was 12 years ago! Wink

On another tack what do you want them for? Rob.
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matthewwh · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:02 pm Post subject:

If you are after a cheap but sensible plane and can hold on for a few weeks I may have an alternative for you.

Quangsheng originally designed their planes to a spec supplied by Woodcraft in the USA where they are marketed as wood river planes. They are still a country mile off the sort of standards that we see from Clifton, but they have got the fundamentals right.

I have yet to use one, but I have had copies of the spec sheets from their materials suppliers and photographs of their production processes, all of which strike me as being correct. My only concern so far is their use of water hardening steel for the irons (the chinese equivalent of W1). This varies greatly upon the qualities of the water in which it is hardened, do it in Sheffield (UK), Pittsburgh (USA) or Miki City (Japan) water - lovely jubbly, do it 50 miles away from any of those places and it has the potential to be absolutely diabolical. Believe it or not Ashley Iles (the man not the company) used to drive to Sheffield and import water to Lincolnshire a truckload at a time just to harden his steel in, it really is that important. AI eventually switched over to O1 which has virtually identical properties but can be hardened anywhere in oil. Most of the Sheffield manufacturers now use O1 because it is so consistant and so good, even though they have the right water to harden W1 availabe on tap.

I won't be able to tell until I sharpen it, but as a pre emptive countermeasure I have started buying up English made O1 blades to retro fit if the Chinese made ones are not up to snuff.

I'll keep you posted.
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big soft moose · Master Cabinetmaker Joined: 22 May 2008 Posts: 4474

matthewwh · Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:05 am Post subject:

No.6, No.5, No.4, No.3, Low angle block, Low angle rebating block and some 'shaves.
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Cheers,

Matthew

My new blog: http://workshopheaven.blogspot.com

AndyT · Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:54 am Post subject:

For twenty quid, buy them.

I've got the equivalent Faithful version of the 778 rebate/filister plane, and would judge it to be much better than the bottom of the market chaiwanese stuff you find at Screwfix/Toolstation etc.

You can then also buy the Workshop Heaven higher grade options when they appear!

That way you will have a diy plane - to use on rough or painted wood, or lend to your neighbours and (hopefully) a more responsive precision tool as well.

Andy

Boz62 · Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:14 pm Post subject:

To digress slightly, has anyone seen any reviews yet for the new Stanley Sweetheart Shoulder Plane. At £57 (when in stock), it's a lot cheaper than any other shoulder plane I've seen. The only stuff I've seen are press release type previews, not full reviews. Once I've filled that hole in my armory, a No 6 would be nice however Smile

Boz

jlawrence · Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:35 pm Post subject:

I have these exact Faithful planes.
Personally I think they're a decent starting point - no point starting off with good planes (ie LN et al) when I'm likely to trash 'em whilst I'm learning. My #4 isn't square sole->side and I've no idea how to sort that.

Added: I'm looking forward to seeing these chinese ones when Matthew's got them in.

JohnBrown · Woodworker Joined: 15 Sep 2007 Posts: 93 Location: Surrey

For <£20 I think I will buy them. They can't be worse than my rusty Rolson! I'm a firmware writer, I can't justify spending hundreds of pounds just to make see-through wood shavings!

Thanks anyway for all the advice!

John

TobyB · Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:24 am Post subject:

Worth thinking about ... is the cheap option "upgradeable"?

I was given an old rusty No 4. Tried "fettling" it a bit - rubbed off the worst of the rust from the sole and side with wet and dry on my float glass, sharpened the blade properly, tried to flatten the tip of the chip breaker, etc. NOT impressed by the results ... chatter, tear-out, etc.

Just put some Sheffield into it, by way of a new Clifton blade and chipbreaker. Transformed! Full stroke thick strips without even pushing hard, or wispy translucent shavings and a smooth surface.

If "cheap" planes that don't work too well can be upgraded in this fashion, might well be worth the money?
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bugbear · Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:50 am Post subject:

TobyB · Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:53 am Post subject:

Agreed if I was buying and could afford - that's why I've got a Clifton 5 1/2 and a LV BUJ - but I can see that from Johns point of view they, or Matthews suggestions, might be worth a go, having seen the difference £50 of blade/iron made to my plane. I wouldn't buy a Clifton/LN No 4 I don't think - but having been given this plane I've now got a useful tool for very little extra outlay (the handles aren't bad and there's little backlash - it's not like a £20 modern thing from B&Q) ...
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jlawrence · Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:05 pm Post subject:

I can see the point in buying the likes of LN et al, but I disagree that it's a good move for someone who is just starting out with hand tools - ie still learning a) how to plane something, and b) how a plane works. That person would be me Smile

.

For a modest outlay you get an old plane (or even a cheap new one) and start learning what's what. You then change a few bits and learn what makes the biggest improvements - ie what are the most important parts of the plane. If you buy a 'good' plane straight off then how do you know if it's set up correctly - you don't, you have to rely on the manufacturer setting it up.