UKWorkshop Woodworking Forums




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2011, 21:20 
Offline
Settled in Member

Joined: 19 May 2010, 15:35
Posts: 217
Location: holsworthy devon
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 1 time
Dibs-h wrote:
I was going to get 2 wireless stats (non program) or 1 wired and 1 wireless, but came across these on Ebay

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... _500wt_949

and thought that for the price - I couldn't go wrong. Siemens are a good\quality brand in my eyes - what do you think?


i would generally only recommend honeywell controls for wireless room thermostats, they are one of the main players in the heating controls sector, as a boiler engineer i see a fair few faulty wireless room stats however these have mainly been the sunvic ones i have also replaced a few of the the drayton stats too, if i replace a stat it would be with a honeywell stat because although i know they are more expensive they are a much better quality and i have found so far i haven`t had one fail on me. i mainly fit the honeywell Y6630D1007 purely because of ease of adjusting the temperature on the analog wheel rather than using the digital buttons or controls. i know if you keep an eye out on ebay they can go cheap but i normally buy them from the local merchants for around £60-£65 +vat.

siemens although a quality brand for many household appliances do not specialise in heating controls that perhaps reflects in the quality of heating controls when compared to a danfoss or honeywell product.

_________________
Mark.
record cl3


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2011, 09:31 
Offline
Valued Contributor

Joined: 22 Jul 2007, 23:40
Posts: 3671
Location: West Yorkshire
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 5 times
Mark

Got 2 (new) Honeywell Y6630D1007 stats off EBay today for < £80 for the pair. Programmer - I was looking at the following,

http://www.screwfix.com/p/horstmann-cen ... mmer/11225

What do you think?

Dibs

edit: had a chat with my "tame" heating chap and he's suggesting the following http://www.screwfix.com/p/siemens-rwb29 ... mmer/65118 as you can advance both channels, whereas you can only advance 1 channel on the Horstmann.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2011, 19:28 
Offline
Settled in Member

Joined: 19 May 2010, 15:35
Posts: 217
Location: holsworthy devon
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 1 time
this is one of the best programmers available on the market at the moment (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/honeywell-st9 ... 500wt_1156)

the honeywell st9400 can +1 hour to +3 hour it can also be advanced. the time is also atomic locked so it doesn`t need the time setting, it also changes automatically for summer / winter times.

hth, mark.

_________________
Mark.
record cl3


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 22 Sep 2011, 20:24 
Offline
Valued Contributor

Joined: 22 Jul 2007, 23:40
Posts: 3671
Location: West Yorkshire
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 5 times
sparkymarky wrote:
this is one of the best programmers available on the market at the moment (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/honeywell-st9 ... 500wt_1156)

the honeywell st9400 can +1 hour to +3 hour it can also be advanced. the time is also atomic locked so it doesn`t need the time setting, it also changes automatically for summer / winter times.

hth, mark.



Cheers Mark

Bought a pair of Sunvic Momo 2 port valves and the Siemens WRB29, unfortunately saw your post a bit on the late side. :oops:

Now try to get my head round the wiring which hopefully shouldn't be too much of a headache. Will let you know how I get on.

Cheers

Dibs


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2011, 06:23 
Offline
A Regular Member
User avatar

Joined: 09 Aug 2004, 17:04
Posts: 1340
Location: Nantwich Cheshire
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 5 times
This wiring guide may be of some use quite easy to adapt to other makes.
http://www.honeywellukwater.com/downloads/General-Information/

_________________
Its about communication so its nice to hear how it all worked out so it benefits everyone.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2011, 07:47 
Offline
Valued Contributor
User avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2010, 20:36
Posts: 3348
Location: Bristle, CUBA (the County that Used to Be Avon)
Has thanked: 75 times
Been thanked: 95 times
I tidied ours up (3 timers + 3 valves) with a couple of these:

Image

It was quicker than drilling plastic boxes, etc., and now I can find the circuits and test them easily, if needs be. The original installation was a rats' nest.

Someone mentioned the mo-mo valves use an extra wire -- does that change the basic circuit, or is it for a limit microswitch of some sort? They do sound like a good idea...

_________________
"When I was younger I could remember anything, whether it happened, or not." Mark Twain


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2011, 09:41 
Offline
Valued Contributor

Joined: 22 Jul 2007, 23:40
Posts: 3671
Location: West Yorkshire
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 5 times
Eric The Viking wrote:
Someone mentioned the mo-mo valves use an extra wire -- does that change the basic circuit, or is it for a limit microswitch of some sort? They do sound like a good idea...


Looking at the wiring diagram - they seem to have an extra wire (5 in total). The 5th wire is Green\Yellow and goes to earth. Cheers for the wiring centre advice - will be looking to get something similar.

Here's a picture of the wiring diagram,

Image

HIH

Dibs


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2011, 13:40 
Offline
Settling In

Joined: 19 Sep 2011, 12:39
Posts: 50
Location: Wetherby
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
If it's running costs that are the motivator here, zoning will contribute but putting an optimiser and compensator in will save you even more. An optimiser is a device that looks at what time you wish the house to be at operating temp, looks at inside and outside temps and then calculates exactly when the boiler should start so that no fuel is wasted but the correct temp is ready when you want it to be. A compensator is a valve that modulates the boiler flow temp so that when the space is close to its set point less heat is put into the water. This effectively stops overshoot and again reduces energy consumption.
Worcester boilers can all have (I think) an R101 controller fitted and this does what I'm talking about. Couple this with remote head TRVs and you have an eminently controllable and energy efficient domestic heating system.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2011, 14:07 
Offline
Valued Contributor

Joined: 22 Jul 2007, 23:40
Posts: 3671
Location: West Yorkshire
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 5 times
YorkshireDave wrote:
If it's running costs that are the motivator here, zoning will contribute but putting an optimiser and compensator in will save you even more. An optimiser is a device that looks at what time you wish the house to be at operating temp, looks at inside and outside temps and then calculates exactly when the boiler should start so that no fuel is wasted but the correct temp is ready when you want it to be. A compensator is a valve that modulates the boiler flow temp so that when the space is close to its set point less heat is put into the water. This effectively stops overshoot and again reduces energy consumption.
Worcester boilers can all have (I think) an R101 controller fitted and this does what I'm talking about. Couple this with remote head TRVs and you have an eminently controllable and energy efficient domestic heating system.


Do you mean weather compensation units? Those I'm familiar with - the modulating valve thingy to prevent overshoot, not heard of that before.

Will be looking at weather compensation when the UFH goes in along with the thermal store.

Cheers

Dibs


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2011, 23:37 
Offline
Settling In

Joined: 19 Sep 2011, 12:39
Posts: 50
Location: Wetherby
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
I think you mean the optimiser - a complex 'sliding' time clock?

Basically its called a compensated flow system. Most systems are designed to operate at (cope with) say -5degs c. At that temp the boiler pumps out a system flow temp of 70degs c (ish). Ones rads are then sized to put sufficient heat into the building to bring to its set point. As teh outside temp warms up (gets closer to the set point) heat is still needed but not quite as much. So, the system calculates what the flow temp should be in order to reach set point and not over shoot (which is where all the wasted energy goes).

Bosch do a great control for about £100 that has an outside air sensor with it. It links directly into the boiler via its networking ability. I have to say its a bit of a sod to get to know but once set correctly its superb. It has an ability to put in offset for the room sensor (that means if your sensor is in the hall and reads 18c when you're toasty in the sitting room at 21c you can put in an 'offset' of 3c effectively fooling the sensor that you've reached set point. It also has night set back so when its really cold the system doesn't switch off just lowers the space temp to say 14c during the night so nowt freezes. It also has an inhibit temp so that if the outside temp is at a point the heating won't come on for no one (thereby stopping the significant other putting the htg on when its a tad chilly in but not out ;-)

All in all a FAB piece of kit that will save a fortune over the years.

D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2011, 08:45 
Offline
A Regular Member
User avatar

Joined: 04 Mar 2006, 09:11
Posts: 1092
Location: Devon
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 15 times
YorkshireDave wrote:
I think you mean the optimiser - a complex 'sliding' time clock?

Basically its called a compensated flow system. Most systems are designed to operate at (cope with) say -5degs c. At that temp the boiler pumps out a system flow temp of 70degs c (ish). Ones rads are then sized to put sufficient heat into the building to bring to its set point. As teh outside temp warms up (gets closer to the set point) heat is still needed but not quite as much. So, the system calculates what the flow temp should be in order to reach set point and not over shoot (which is where all the wasted energy goes).

Bosch do a great control for about £100 that has an outside air sensor with it. It links directly into the boiler via its networking ability. I have to say its a bit of a sod to get to know but once set correctly its superb. It has an ability to put in offset for the room sensor (that means if your sensor is in the hall and reads 18c when you're toasty in the sitting room at 21c you can put in an 'offset' of 3c effectively fooling the sensor that you've reached set point. It also has night set back so when its really cold the system doesn't switch off just lowers the space temp to say 14c during the night so nowt freezes. It also has an inhibit temp so that if the outside temp is at a point the heating won't come on for no one (thereby stopping the significant other putting the htg on when its a tad chilly in but not out ;-)

All in all a FAB piece of kit that will save a fortune over the years.

D


That's really interesting Dave - thanks for posting. Is there any way the system can differentiate between the zoned radiator circuits and UFH? We are nearly up to roof plate on a large kitchen extension and want to put UFH into it whilst the rest of the house remains on rads. We have concrete floors so retrofit of UFH throughout isn't practical, but is the preferred option for the extension.

Unless I'm mistaken, we will need to keep the kitchen UFH on a separate zone to the already zoned upstairs and downstairs so that lower temp water can go through the UFH when compared to the rads. Introducing a compensated flow system as you describe appeals - but is it practical in the system I've just described?

_________________
Regards, Roger


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2011, 09:31 
Offline
Settling In

Joined: 19 Sep 2011, 12:39
Posts: 50
Location: Wetherby
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
UFH can still operate on a compensated system but it would requirre an addional controll valve and controller. TBA with the effeciency of UFH the additional expense is not really worth it. From a simplistic cost benefit point of view its best to keep it to one type of system. If you have two zones the flow temp should be determined by the highest temp requirement.
David


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2011, 11:01 
Offline
A Regular Member
User avatar

Joined: 04 Mar 2006, 09:11
Posts: 1092
Location: Devon
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 15 times
YorkshireDave wrote:
UFH can still operate on a compensated system but it would requirre an addional controll valve and controller. TBA with the effeciency of UFH the additional expense is not really worth it. From a simplistic cost benefit point of view its best to keep it to one type of system. If you have two zones the flow temp should be determined by the highest temp requirement.
David


So are you saying that as the rest of the house is on rads (about 1700 sq ft), the extension (about 400 sq ft) should also be on rads? As the extension is a kitchen/diner/living area we expect to virtually live in it!

Or that it's fine for the extension to have UFH on a separate zone to the rads, but don't bother with weather compensation?

_________________
Regards, Roger


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2011, 12:29 
Offline
Valued Contributor

Joined: 22 Jul 2007, 23:40
Posts: 3671
Location: West Yorkshire
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 5 times
YorkshireDave wrote:
I think you mean the optimiser - a complex 'sliding' time clock?

Basically its called a compensated flow system. Most systems are designed to operate at (cope with) say -5degs c. At that temp the boiler pumps out a system flow temp of 70degs c (ish). Ones rads are then sized to put sufficient heat into the building to bring to its set point. As teh outside temp warms up (gets closer to the set point) heat is still needed but not quite as much. So, the system calculates what the flow temp should be in order to reach set point and not over shoot (which is where all the wasted energy goes).

Bosch do a great control for about £100 that has an outside air sensor with it. It links directly into the boiler via its networking ability. I have to say its a bit of a sod to get to know but once set correctly its superb. It has an ability to put in offset for the room sensor (that means if your sensor is in the hall and reads 18c when you're toasty in the sitting room at 21c you can put in an 'offset' of 3c effectively fooling the sensor that you've reached set point. It also has night set back so when its really cold the system doesn't switch off just lowers the space temp to say 14c during the night so nowt freezes. It also has an inhibit temp so that if the outside temp is at a point the heating won't come on for no one (thereby stopping the significant other putting the htg on when its a tad chilly in but not out ;-)

All in all a FAB piece of kit that will save a fortune over the years.

D


Dave - have you got any links you can post for the Bosch thingy and compensated flow systems in general?

Cheers

Dibs


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2011, 14:01 
Offline
Settling In

Joined: 19 Sep 2011, 12:39
Posts: 50
Location: Wetherby
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
Read this
http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/new ... sionID=189
and this
http://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/homeow ... controller


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
 Similar topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
Wall mounted condensing central heating boiler

in General Chat (Off-Topic)

hanser

6

320

17 Nov 2014, 09:17

Workshop heating

in General Woodworking

myturn

31

1048

07 Jan 2014, 20:38

Heating up a cellar

in General Chat (Off-Topic)

dm65

16

491

21 Mar 2014, 20:39


Register UKW

User Tools






UKW Local

Quickly find the nearest tool suppliers & timber merchants in your area





Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
UKW Terms & Privacy

phpBB SEO